Desperately seeking help to clean imprinted concrete drive

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by slapstyxx, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. slapstyxx

    slapstyxx Member

    I'm hoping someone can give me advice on how to clean rubber tyre skid marks off a freshly laid imprinted concrete drive.
    Our neighbour spent a small fortune on having a new drive laid a few weeks a go. Then he went away on holiday. Whilst he was away, some kids thought it was a great idea to use it for BMX stunts. Unfortunately the youngster we look after was involved. The brand new drive is now covered in skidmarks. My neighbour isn't too happy...
    He says the outfit that laid it can't clean it. They have to "chemically burn off the sealer and reseal it". Inevitably, he expects me to cover the cost. However, he won't let me touch the drive, which seems a tad unreasonable. His contractors were unorthodox, to say the least. They caused a lot of damage, swore incessantly, and were out there using machines at 9pm. Now they won't say whose sealer they used. I'm not convinced that they're the most reliable source of information.
    Does anyone have experience in this field please? I feel sure there must be a way to clean off rubber marks without damaging the surface. I'd love to restore relationships and his drive. I have some citrus cleaner that deals with most things; is it really likely cause more damage to a surface that is theoretically designed to be driven on and exposed to the weather?
    I'll be very grateful for any advice.
    Thank you in advance,
    Mark
     
  2. Hi Mark.

    Arrrgh - what a horrible situation. But surely fully resolvable.

    You sound like a thoroughly decent fellow, and want to do the right thing. But that shouldn't be at any cost - both sides need to be reasonable here.

    Bottom line - the kid you are looking after is liable, as are his friends. They were 'naughty' - but that's it; they are hardly criminals. It's the sort of thing we've all done at one time or another... :rolleyes:.

    Ok, this new and, no doubt, expensive drive has been sealed - but cannot cope with some tyre marks... Are they claiming that the 'seal' hadn't set fully? Or is it that their 'seal' ain't up to the job?!

    It sounds like complete over-kill to me for the sealing layer to require chemical removal and reinstatement. For some tyre marks?!!! Had your neighb himself spun his car wheels on this drive by accident, would it require a chemical removal?

    No, I didn't think so.

    Obviously there is huge moral obligation on you to sort this out, but not at this unreasonable cost. It is perfectly reasonable for you to say "Look, of course I want this sorted - you shouldn't have to suffer from what my kid and his friends did. However, I cannot accept that this requires the seal coating to be chemically removed and reinstated - that just doesn't make sense. I will look at all reasonable methods at having this sorted, but for that I will need to have the opinion of an independent company who do these jobs. It simply cannot be the case that a tyre mark - which the drive is bound to receive at some point - needs the dramatic fix your contractor says..."

    I suspect it's a combination of your neighb - having paid a fortune for this drive - now wants it absolutely 'perfect' again, and see a recoating as the only way to achieve this. Sorry - that's unreasonable; in a few months it will be irrelevant to that drive. And the other element could well be the company who did the job - rather than any acceptance that their seal coating cannot shrug off tyre marks, they are pandering to the customer and backing up what he 'wants to hear'.

    I consider that to be unreasonable, but that doesn't necessarily help you; unreasonable people are the worst.

    I think all you can do is keep being calm and helpful and concerned, and reassure them you want to sort this out. But that - sorry - you don't consider the installation company's solution to be at all reasonable (try and blame the company for being unreasonable - avoid suggesting your neighbour is :rolleyes:.) Point out obvious things - stripping off the seal coating to remove a tyre mark is clearly crazy. There will be - must be - numerous other solutions to this, and you will be prepared to have an independent cleaning company in to look and tackle it.

    Yes, it is unreasonable for the installer to refuse to provide information on the make of the sealer - in theory that's all you need to be able to get proper information on how it should be cleaned. So they are hindering you.

    It is not necessarily unreasonable for your neighb to prevent you from trying to clean it, tho' - you wouldn't let anyone loose on your new floor or drive or similar, would you?

    So I suspect your neighb will not be happy with you trying to sort this out yourself using your own cleaners, and you may have to accept this unless the makers of the sealant come back and say "No problem - just use a soft brush and some washing up liquid!!!" In this case, it would show up your neighb as being unreasonable in not allowing this kind of fix, and if they don't even allow you to contact the manufacturer, then... blimey.

    So, if they don't provide the name of the manufacturer, they are effectively tying your hands and preventing you from possibly coming up with a simple solution. In this case, you can reasonably say you will not entertain any other fix until that obvious route is exhausted.

    If the neighb then says he will have the chemical/reinstatement work and sue you, you can rest assured he will not be able to do this. He would have to follow a recorded process where it was made clear that you refused to sort his drive, and all you'd have to do is show that you were perfectly happy at all times to get in touch with the manufacturer of the sealer.

    I also suspect that your neighb is a bit 'precious' - there's something about these printed driveways that appeals to the anal amongst us... :rolleyes:

    You are clearly a decent bloke and want to sort this. That doesn't mean they can bully you into an unreasonable solution.

    Good luck - keep us posted.

    (I wonder where Phil the Paver is? :))
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2014
  3. Almost certainly, these tyre marks would simply erode in time with the weather elements and being driven on in normal use... :rolleyes:
     
  4. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Without reading your massive post above, this answer is the right answer, these marks would have appeared via his car running over it, it is common for it to happen on a new surface, including new block paving, natural weathering will eliminate the marks in no time at all.
     
  5. Aw, go on - read my post - I put a lot of work into it :p
     
  6. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Right, I've read your very in depth post, and I couldn't agree more. :)
     
  7. You great big fibber... :)
     
  8. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    If it's black rubber marks, then nip round very late at night and paint over the whole driveway with black paint. Not only will it cover up the marks, but will make his driveway look fabulous. Your neighbour will be extremely impressed, when he wakes up in the morning and gazes upon his nice black driveway. ;););)
     
  9. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Bit of fairy and scrubbing brush, hosed down would do it. Worst case a bit of turps, brush and hose.
    Either the neighbour is havin' a laugh, or the 'company' is.(Company in quotes as in 'company just out to get loads of dosh for a quick scrub or we ain't bothering')

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  10. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    As a side note, if it was that susceptible to marking or damage, I'd be asking for me money back.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  11. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Sounds like the "Outfit" who done it, used to tarmac yer driveway" some years ago, before turning their attention to upvc fascia and soffits, and are now back on the driveway game (again) :p:p:p:p:p
     
  12. slapstyxx

    slapstyxx Member

    Thank you all for your replies and advice. We've had a chuckle reading some...

    Update:-

    I've approached several sealer manufacturers. Their advice is generally similar, although none is able to say with certainty that a given solution will work because we don't know what make of sealer was used. Three makers say the sealer is more likely to "pick up" marks whilst the drive cures. They also say that they'll simply wear off in time. Two suggest using a citrus based cleaner with mild agitation if necessary, followed by a low power (wide fan) pressure wash. All are adamant that their products, when correctly applied, are designed to withstand pressure washing. Similarly, they all recommend leaving the drive to fully harden (and thus the sealer to cure) for six weeks before doing anything.

    I researched the contractor. The company is a limited liability company with a net worth of £336. They claim 19 years of experience, but have traded for only two. Apart from a director listed at Companies House, there were four workmen on the job. That means an average of less than four years each. One, a 23 year-old, told my neighbour he'd been doing these drives for eight years (!), which says the others have little or no experience or the claim is simply an outright lie. The director was previously associated with another disreputable driveways company that went bust a few years ago. They turn up in an unmarked white van, and use an 0800 number that connects via a call handling centre. Frankly, I wouldn't have touched them with a barge pole.

    My neighbour dropped by yesterday. Despite pressure, the contractor still hasn't given him the details of the sealer they used. He said he nearly fell through the floor when the contractor told him how much they'd charge to reseal the drive; at least he had the grace to keep that figure to himself. He admitted that he was annoyed to start with, but subsequently accepts that kids will be kids. He just wants his driveway to look less like a racetrack, which is only reasonable.

    When we looked more closely at his drive yesterday, it was clear that there are other rubber marks from car tyres and shoes, as well as those left by the kids. Worse still, there are what appeared to be chips in the surface already. My neighbour said they're not chips; they're voids that the contractor failed to fill before they applied colour and sealer.

    He was dismayed when I shared my findings about his contractor. He's had to repair the damage the contractor caused (including fitting a new outdoor tap), and he admits that he's reluctant to have them back. He's willing to leave it another week and then let me try the citrus cleaner idea. Both suggestions came from makers of solvent based sealers, and he's pretty sure they used a solvent based product.

    Thanks again to all - I'll post another update in a week or so after we've tried cleaning.

    Cheers!
     
  13. CraigMcK

    CraigMcK Screwfix Select

    If they are such a cowboy outfit, they could have used anything the "seal" it, even down to some watered down PVA. If you are going to try something, I would do a test patch somewhere out of the way just in case it makes it worse
     
  14. That sounds promising - I'm not too surprised that your neighb was dismayed to begin with; it probably was quite a shock when he returned from his hols.

    Take care when slagging of the contractor; they may well act like a bunch of cowboys (clearly they don't instil confidence), but at the moment you just don't know. They may well have made a perfectly decent job... :rolleyes: Cough.

    However... It is not reasonable for them to withhold info on the product used when you are seeking advice on maintenance. It is not reasonable of them to suggest a chemical clean and re-coat as a fix for what should be considered normal use (if this were your drive and your kid wanted to cycle on it, would you ban them from your own drive?! What kind of new driveway is unsuitable for cycling on?! "Sorry, son - that drive is just too good for you...").

    If this drive required 6 weeks hardening, it should have been made very clear from the offset by the installers. Did your neighb park on his own drive before leaving for his hols?

    Anyways, it sounds as tho' he's calmed down and sees the bigger picture. He should have a warranty on this drive - does he?

    Almost certainly the tyre marks will erode in a few weeks (especially with rain) or be largely removable with some normal brushing.

    Once the dust has settled and all is well again, buy your neigh a bottle of Scotch. And make your boy pay for it...
     
  15. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    At least your neighbours seem decent people, my betting is, if you leave well alone, within a few weeks you will be laughing about this and wondering what all the fuss was about
     
  16. slapstyxx

    slapstyxx Member

    Agreed. I'm aware of the risk of libel, so I've refrained from identifying them or even the town from which they operate. The rest of the info is public record. The contractor's only advice was that there be no traffic (including foot traffic) for 24 hours. They didn't mention the mechanical processes involved in curing, nor did they tell my neighbour that he'll need to reseal it periodically anyway. He says there was a very strong smell when they applied the sealer, and the 24 hour period tends to indicate a solvent based product.

    The young 'un is well aware that he's overstepped a boundary. He was near feral when he came to us around three years ago, and although he tries very hard, he still slips back to default behaviours especially in a peer group. Kids used to saying living here was like Boot Camp, but consistency has a positive effect over time. Actions always connect with consequences, and these kids are frequently so material that the best way of getting the message across is via their pockets ;-)

    Thanks again.
     
  17. Forgive me for lapsing into near-mawkishness, but folks like you make a real difference.
     
    Rulland likes this.
  18. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    As DA.
     
  19. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    I bet the garden tap was damaged when they tied the horse to it. :p:p:p:p:p
     
  20. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    ....and I'll bet they are reticent to tell the type of sealer, because it was plain Thomsons Patio Sealer.
    £22 a can, and they'll want to charge £200 for doing it.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     

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