Kitchen Worktops advice needed on using a router

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by PinkyPerky, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    Hi
    I am now confused! I am doing my first kitchen worktop using square edge Black Sparkle worktop. The plan is to form an L by butting two pieces instead of using mitres, with Colorfill between the faces and clamps below.
    I know that the first job is likely to be put down to experience! Would welcome comments from people with experience.

    I first cut one piece, face down, close to the needed length using a circular saw with a 40T blade, having first put tape on the work surface. This is now about 2.5mm too long at front and back and 1.5mm in the centre, and the worktop surface edge is rougher than expected. The edge is slightly concave because I used what I thought was a wooden straight edge which clearly wasn’t; (next time I will use a 25mm square aluminium straight edge or my spirit level!)

    I thought I would then get a nice clean edge using my new Erbauer ½” router and a new cutter. With the worktop surface facing downwards and edge to be cut facing me I clamped my UNIKA Supajig to give a 1mm full depth shave. Rather than use the 30mm guide in the centre slot I removed the guide and used the flat side/edge of the router on the top edge of the UNIKA. The UNIKA manual didn’t say in Section 4.01 Straight Edge Mode which way the worksurface should be on the bench. I moved from right to left as I thought the Erbauer manual showed, and started from the flat formica edge on the right. It took a 12mm chunk out of the facing (First bodge - I hope to glue it back and infill with Colorfill.) I can now see how that would happen with the direction of rotation.
    Looking again at the diagram I believe I should have gone from left to right as it shows right to left viewed from the stock side. Is the rule right to left when viewed from the stock side? In which case should I have put the worktop face up so as to first cut into the edge formica?

    How do I work out the distance from the UNIKA top edge to the finished cut edge? I have seen the offset is 9mm but (30.0 – 12.7)/2 = 8.65

    Was a single 1mm full depth shave wrong at half speed?

    I could have used the router to do the first cut but had read that a sawcut would mean less wear on the router cutter. I can sort out the straightness but how do I get a better top formica edge? Are there 48T blades?
    Several videos show people moving their router left to right and others right to left. Does it not matter only when using a guide in a jig slot?
     
  2. Joe95

    Joe95 Screwfix Select

    Jig and Bush. If you go along a guide, you risk moving the cutter, even a millimeter of router slack will blow the top.
    You want the router on full speed or just below.
    4 or 5 passes to go though the worktop to cut it. You'll burn/blunt the blade going all in one go, as well as its almost definitely going to blow the top.
    Look at the cutter to find out which way to go, you want the sharp edge feeding into the worktop. Just the same way you can't use a circular saw backwards.
    You can cut the top or bottom, usually depending on if it is a male or female joint.

    I've not got enough confidence in the circular saw cut finish to run it through a top. I have 48T blades too. Freud are my personal favorite, top quality for the price.
    Worktops are one of the hardest things to do with a router IMO, so you're not the first to blow laminate:).
     
    KIAB and CGN like this.
  3. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    10mm masons mitre is my preference for square edge tops. Always go into front edge with router bit :) flip top accordingly :)
     
    Joe95 likes this.
  4. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Definitely go for Freud blades, give a lovely clean cut, only blades I use.
     
    Joe95 likes this.
  5. Nis999

    Nis999 Member

    Always router from left to right, as Joe95 says the blade has to lead in to the wood. And always start at the post-formed (front) edge. So when you cut the right hand end worktop is face up, and the left face down. If you cut with the postformed edge at the end of the cut, the blade will tear the laminate.

    Use the 30mm guide, with the first 4 or 5 passes (about 8mm ish depth on each pass) pull the router away from the workpiece ie with the guide on the far side of the slot until you’ve cut full depth; with these passes make sure the router is pulled firmly against the jig and downwards at the same time, but push along carefully without too much force, or you will quickly burn out the bit. The more you take off with each pass the more care is needed not to burn the bit. Then the finishing pass at full depth with the router pushed into the workpiece which will take off another mm; that’s why the centre slot is the width it is!

    As walls are rarely square, I always cut the female joint first, the lay it over (or under) the adjoining worktop and mark the male – this way it doesn’t matter if the walls are 93 or 87 degrees – the male joint is marked at the right angle. The jig can then be clamped on to cut the male following the marked line.

    Trend make an offset pencil scriber which makes this very easy, if you haven’t got one just mark with a pencil & set the jig back from the line until the router blade is going to cut along your pencil line – set this up with great care before start up the router to ensure you will cut exactly along the line.

    https://www.trenddirectuk.com/trend-routing-jigs/worktop-jig/offset-scriber

    Good luck
     
    longboat likes this.
  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

  7. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    Thanks for all the comments so far.
     
  8. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    Some very good info but not quite what I needed as I was trying to butt join the (very) square edge and therefore wouldn't be using the jig and bush.
    I was trying to make a straight end for this joint. You can't use the jig slot because with the pegs in the 90deg holes the slot is well short of the edge: why dont they put the angle holes further up the jig? You have to use the top edge of the jig. As my router has a flat edge I used that after removing the 30mm guide. Today I looked into Freud blades which look good if expensive - noone seems to stock the size I need.

    I tried again. this time left to right when facing the worktop. Did it in 8mm steps and speed 5 of 6. I now have a clean edge and smooth formica. (Going by my electric plane I should have been able to skim 1mm off without burning the cutter, but no problem.)
    I have used colorfill and have bolted it up - looks fine and the glued on edging piece looks OK. I cut corners by not removing the thick formica edge on the other piece. I will probably come back later in the year as I need to do a kitchen in the granny flat - haven't decided what worktop to have yet...
     
  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    What size Freud blades.
     
  10. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    184mm 30mm centre hole
     
  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    30mm bore, :eek:most 184mm blades are 16mm bore, what saw.:confused:
     
  12. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    B&Q PerformancePower
     
  13. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    That's a 20mm bore surely.
     
  14. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    I'll measure it in the morning!
     
  15. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Yep, that saw is 20mm,it's is a oddball.
     
  16. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    Have checked and it is 20mm
    Will search again for Freud though I might buy a 210mm saw
    Now to find the Stanley blades I bought for my 40+ years old Paramo plane which I remember using for trimming laminate:)
     
  17. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    To get a really neat joint, you need to take edging off on 'female' joint.
    10mm worktop jig gives you the best of both worlds.
     

    Attached Files:

    Joe95 likes this.
  18. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

    Nice join! I can say that because I cant see one!!!
    I keep seeing talk of using a masons mitre you mention a 10mm worktop jig. Are there any links to these
     
  19. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    You can just see it if you look closely. ..bit of dust in join ;)

    The hosts competitors do one. It's made by Unika. Depending on the configuration, always cut female, then unless you have a perfect 90, or thereabouts you can scribe the male joint. Usually you can get a few goes at doing the male join if you have plenty of excess at the other end, not as likely with female as you've already taken 600mm out the top.
    If scribing male joint, don't use pegs...I don't anyway. Just measure back 9/10 mm depending on excess other end and line jig up parallel to scribed line and 'eye' up the mitre until it's even.
     
    Joe95 likes this.
  20. PinkyPerky

    PinkyPerky New Member

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