Advice on lintels with daylight showing above

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Claire Brummitt, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    Hi, I recently had two doors widened and although I wasn't thrilled with the results, once builders came to give me quotes for other work, they said the lintels are dangerous and must not be boxed in until replaced. The doorways have four runs of blockwork (not the aerated sort) above them in a bungalow.
    The faults they pointed out were:
    1.It is unacceptable to screw two thin lengths of wood together to make a thicker piece and call it a lintel- 'it is not appropriate to the stresses involved'.
    2. The lintels do not extend far enough to the side of the doorways.
    3. It is not acceptable to bed lintels onto thick layers of concrete- not strong enough and will contract. Any space beneath the 'lintel' should have been built up with brick.
    4. Both 'lintels' can be moved by a builder casually reaching up and wiggling it. One said 'I could just push it out with my hand if I wanted'. Lucky he wasn't feeling destructive.
    6. Daylight is clearly visible along the full length of both 'lintels' so they are not supporting the area of wall above- one of these contributes to the load bearing of a beam in my roof.

    I pointed this out and the builder came back with:
    'Timber, made up of two or more sections is quite acceptable for door frames and has been used in either solid or joined sections for over 1000 years, as any reputable English conservation builder will know.' (yes, he does give himself airs! lol).
    'Daylight being seen above the door frame is clear evidence that the wall is not load bearing. If both beams can be moved then that illustrates the walls do not need lintels as neither walls are resting on the lintel.' He asked for the contact details for the builders who have criticised his work, but I'm not passing them on until each gives me permission and I'm worried he'll try to convince them to doubt their own judgement.

    Opinions would be welcome on who is right, but can anyone advise whether I need a structural engineer, a surveyor or just a really competent builder to write me a report to send to this person. I was planning to have all my jobs checked by the building regs officer in one fell swoop, but I don't fancy him seeing this before it's put right so it'll hold things up. If anyone can put me in touch with a good local builder (Exeter/ Newton Abbot) that would be great if that is allowed on this site.

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    A picture of what you have would be useful.

    The brickwork above may be self supporting today, what about next week? You are right to be concerned and do need independent advice on which way to proceed.
     
  3. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    In the majority of cases the builders who gave you the points are correct. There is a difference between historic and current building methods

    The rules on "lintels" are quite simple. they should rest on pad stones, cement is a no no, some build control will accept concrete. The lintel must rest on at least 150mm of pad stone either side. The lintel must be of sufficient bulk to hold the weight it is designed to support. The gap between the lintel and the brickwork above must be supported by something solid - slate is the preferred with a little smear of cement - timber is a no no.

    Your builders seem quite sensible. it wouldn't be a long job for them to sort out proper lintels and packing.

    A building control (BC) inspector will be more than happy to come out and check the work. The BC guys are very good, especially if the guy has been previously known to them
     
    KIAB likes this.
  4. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    Hi Sospan, Thankyou for your reply. Its really useful information. :)
     
  5. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    Hi pollowick, I'll try to take some photos to upload in the morning. Thanks
     
  6. Chore

    Chore New Member

    Depending on the size of the opening and if its internal or external a p100 (65x100) concrete lintel is the norm. 100mm bearing is OK upto about 1m but 150 is a better job. A bed joint under lintel upto about 10mm is ok on new work where it has time to cure before being loaded. Historically they did use internal frames as part load bearing but not to carry 4 courses of block. Your best bet is to tell builder you are instructing an independent building surveyer and taking his findings to trading standards,the threat of this should be enough to give him a kick up the **** to rectify
     
  7. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    As the builder has insisted I make him lots of photos, I've uploaded a sample here. It looks to me like a lesson in how not to install support over a doorway, but further thoughts would be welcomed. Thanks for the helpful comments so far :)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    Hi, I've uploaded some pics now. Thanks
     
  9. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    It looks like he has used 100 x50 normal construction material for the lintels. The timber lintels don't look like they are bolted or screwed together. So within a short while they will start moving independently of each other - so they can and probably will warp and twist in different directions.

    By looking at the pictures the lintels have moved and this is why you are getting the gaps!

    Even with the addition of mesh onto the timber to support your plaster you are going to be plagued with cracks in the plasterwork for years to come.

    Even in a conservation job, you would not normally fit two pieces of timber like that, so I don't know why he is saying that is good practice even in his words that you repeated timber should be " either solid or joined sections"

    I would ask your local Building Control officer to come out and give his independent view on the work
     
  10. Claire Brummitt

    Claire Brummitt New Member

    Hi, Thanks for the further advice. He has screwed the wood together, but just with normal wood screws which seems a bit dodgy. Yes, I'm going to have get building control to take a look as he can't go on thinking this is good workmanship. The surveyor who surveyed for me before I bought the place has put me in touch with a couple of structural engineers, but I expect the cost would be too much to bother with (except that on a point of principal I can be a bit like a terrier with a rabbit!).
     

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