Advice required...thanks in advance.

looks as if the boiler is overheating. Make sure there is no blockage or trapped air in the system. which is stopping the water from circulating properly.

 

Hi can anyone shed any light on this please has anyone encounter drayton lp programmer issues regarding reliability and relay switching after changing my pump for an intelligent pump option my programmer keeps having issues i'm wondering if the switching amps of 2.6amps is the course and maybe changing up to a honeywell 3amp option to cure the issue and thoughts thanks

 

Hi Trees.

Only chust seen this thread.

You have a rad that rusted through? Ok, that almost certainly happened from the inside-out, so that means you have some serious corrosion going on inside your sealed system.

When rads corrode internally in the virtual absence of air, the 'rust' formed is a black sludge. This settles out in places where the flow is lowest, like along the centre-bottoms of radiators, and in the lowest pipes.

Shutting orf that rusty rad shouldn't affect the rest of the system, so that shouldn't be your issue here. That fact that yer boiler comes on for short periods and then offski for longer suggests a blockage somewhere (tho' there could be other causes). Basically, the lack of flow getting around yer rad system means the boiler cannot shift the hot water inside it fast enough to keep going, so it 'overheats' and shuts off until that bit of heated water is dispersed.

Similarly your hot water supply - running hot and then cold is a classic blocked PtoP exchanger symptom.

So, it does all point to blockages due to sludge...

(HE boilers are more prone to being blocked up too, as their waterways tend to be finer).

What to do? Do you have a magnetic filter fitted in your system? If so, check its contents - see if it's catching carp. If you don't have one, then it's time to get one. This is a relatively easy DIY fit if you can get good access to the CH return pipe.

So, the 'cure' may be to (a) install a Magnaclean and (b) add a good (double...) dose of Adey MC3+ cleaner, and then run your system checking the cleaner every couple of days.

Firs, tho', I would personally try and get rid of most of that sludge separately, 'cos the wee filter will be overwhelmed if it's sludge that's the cause.

I'd start by removing that rusted rad and check to see if it's sludged up inside - take an angle-grinder to it if you can (along the bottom-middle) or else chust try hosing it through and see what comes out.

If you get inky black sludge (messy...) then you should really repeat this with every rad in turn (you can do them one at a time whilst keeping the rest of the system running). By 'repeat', I don't mean cut them all open... Just take them outside (shut off both valves and that should stop water coming oot the system) and hose them thorough whilst thumping the bottom-middle with a rubber mallet.

Refit each one and open the valves (with the boiler off) to refill. Bleed rad and top-up the system to 1 bar pressure each time.

THEN MAKE SURE THE LOCKSHIELD VALVE IS TURNED TO EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS BEFORE YOU SHUT IT ORF - YOU DID NOTE THAT DOWN, DIDN'T YOU?

Try and remove as much gunk as you can this way, and then cross yer fingers that the chemicals will loosen the rest and the Magnaclean will trap it.

If you are REALLY lucky, this will also clear up the PtoP exchanger and you'll get yer hot water back. But good chance it's too late for that.

Ok, all of the above is assuming that sludge IS the issue.


Ok, if that rusty rad IS full of gunk and you know you have a serious problem (confirmed by hosing through a second rad, then this is what I would also do (and am about to do on my own system...):

Buy a Magnaclean Pro - around £80.

Also buy - on a temporary basis - a second-hand Magnacleanse from, say, EBay. This will cost you around £300-£400, but you WILL get it all back when you've done.

Ok, cut the return pipe to take the Magnaclean, add the valves but don't fit the actual filter. Instead connect up the M'Cleanse (it has flexible hoses) which is designed to connect straight up to these valves, and fill the two cylinders with a full bottle of MC3+ each. Repressurise your system, and fire away.

Leave that running for a few weeks, checking the filters as often as needed. Keep it fitted until the amount collected is virtually zero, remove the M'Cleanse, drain down - refill - drain down your system, install the M'Clean and add a dose of Sentinel X900 (long term filer assist)and a dose of Sentinel X100 (inhibitor) and jobbie jobbed. Hopefully.

If your hot water is still fluctuating hot and cold, then chances are the PtoP will need replacing (typically around £200+), but at least you will have cleaned your system and prevented any further corrosion - so saved many many £undreds.

Clean up the M'Cleanse, and sell it on EBay - get back what you paid for it.


Oh, please report back on what you find inside that rusty rad.

Oh, and - yes - refill the downstairs rads first (best say this or I'll be told off...), one at a time, bleeding them and re-topping the system, and then move upstairs. All with the boiler off, of course...

 

Please always start new threads.

Anyhoo, as far as I know, these new pumps are FAR more energy efficient than the old ones, so I cannot see it drawing more power.

Check the specifications - it'll tell you what the power draw is.

What kind of system do you have? If it has motorised valves, then these can often give weird symptoms like faulty control.

(Pssst - start a new thread )

 

Thanks for your reply i'm a newbe on here so i will next time it's a open vent system with a 3 port motorized valve programmer was lasting a good few years i changed the pump for a variable A rated one and boom programmer relay issue Started , My new pump only draws 45w but 2.6 amps where my old pump of 95w only drew 0.565 amps the programmer is rated at only 2 amps so that little extra must be the issue looked at honeywell 3amp option i spoke to drayton and to be fair they sent a replacement programmer foc but only lasted about 2 months
thanks again pete

 

Hi Jet Flow Pete,
Maths; if the Drayton programmer is switching 2.6 amps, and if it is rated at 2.0 amps, then it is not a 'little extra', but it is being overloaded by 30%.
However if the new pump draws 2.6 amps at 230 volts then the wattage is 600 watts (and not the 45 watts you claim). This 600 watts is most unlikely for just a pump!
Is the power being used elsewhere?
I have two Drayton programmers, and my father has one, no problems over the past 20 years, although the markings have worn away on my father's, he often uses the 'Advance' button.

 

As Tricky says, there's something wrong here.

ALL new CH pumps have by regulations (probably EU ones...) to be energy efficient. You will find that your new one won;t even draw 45W for most of the time, but will regulate itself to provide efficient performance at the lowest speed - and consumption - possible. They are amazing devices, really.

How did you measure its current draw as being 2.6A? It cannot be anywhere near that. 45W is just under one-fifth of one amp.

Summat wrong.

You need to recheck your readings and find out what is causing that excess current draw.

 

Well, you can be certain that there's some sludge remaining in your system (in pipes, pumps, diverter valve etc) unless it was removed by a power-flush or similar.

I had a situation last yer where reduced CH flow through my own combi boiler - error code said "restricted flow" - was caused by a sludged-up diverter valve inside which couldn't move fully to each position (CH and DHW).

So, do you have a magnetic filter fitted? If not, that's the first thing you should do - and the Magnaclean seems to be well regarded. Add a dose (or two) or MC3+ and run as normal. See what the filter collects.

If you start to see an improvement pretty quickly, then that should point nicely to the cause as still being 'sludge'.

Yes, and in-line valve can also sludge up and reduce flow, but I'd have thought that the isolating ones fitted by your plumber would have been 'full-bore' and wouldn't have any points inside them that could be sludged.

Anyhoo, you know what your next step is...

 

Power flush, power flush, power flush, where are you situated ? trees maybe we could help my company is jet flow power flush