Baxi Bermuda + hot water cylinder Economical?

if you have a 3 port valve, this is called a Y plan and the hot water is controlled by a thermastat, so if you run them both it will heat the water and when the water is hot, the 3 port vavle will shut the water off till it is used and then it will heat it up again,
So running both is a good idea,

 

yes Julie, that's a Y plan, its a strange place to put a room stat in a cylinder cupboard but run both in winter and hot water only when you don't want heating on, make sure the tanks and cylinder are lagged well,

 

You have a remote cylinder thermostat as the cylinder is in the loft. The idea is that you run hot water or heating when you like, independent of each other. To modern boilers, the Bermuda is very expensive to run and makes noises in the living room. You may want to consider a new Intergas combi fitted in the loft. It will be far more reliable than the mid-way 3-way valve and massively cheaper to run. And gives high pressure showers. You eliminate the drafty vent in the living room as well.

 

Like you say miss julie a combi will be more efficient because you're not heating water when you don't need it and the boiler its self will use less gas, BUT new boilers are not made to last as long and they have built in unreliability, that baxi you have was made to last many are still going after 40 years with only the odd service and repair, the new boiler you are thinking about is a good one but the best of the best are only expected to live 15 years,

 

The efficiency is around 60-65%. less because it is old, more like 50%. Consider the Intergas 36/30. It has an excellent hot water flow rate filling baths OK and over 90% efficient. Your gas bills will drop like a stone. It only has 4 moving parts and is built like a tank, but still quite small in physical size. All parts are easily accessible for any servicing. It is designed for longevity in the Dutch social housing market. It is readily available now and even national chain Plumb Center stock it. Take no notice of the drivel Tom Plumb is spouting, Intergas boilers have been made since 1993 and most are still running. Intergas have not had one heat exchanger failure in over 20 years. They can be fired up without water in them and survive.

Those who say modern boilers only last a few years are usually "plumbers" (think of drains) who do not know how the boilers work, so are unable to diagnose the problem or change parts and recommend a replacement of which the householder is conned into accepting. I have seen few combis that cannot be repaired economically enough.

If you do go for the Intergas have the outside weather sensor fitted. You can even use the existing clock/programmer you have and ignore the DHW slide switch. If an installer tries to dissuade you from the Intergas go to another. Some are on a markup for buying certain makes.

 

Walt I've not a bad word to say of intergas, so where is the drivel you say I'm sprouting ? lets have a little quiz hey, I'll not expect rapid answers as i know you will have to google the answers.


1. which are the 4 moving parts of an intergas boiler?
2.does any other boiler work in the same way?
3. how many parts has a baxi backboiler including moving and non moving ?

 

This 15 years maximum nonsense. I know of "cheap" combis that are well over 20 years old still going along. The are in clean systems with regular X100 doses in the system and all parts changed when failed.

Oh No! Mr Plumb does not know what the 4 moving parts are on an Intergas. Well he is a plumber and does drains.

A little Google will tell you. What you do not know ask me.

 

So you don't know then ha ha,....

my post was to highlight your often used phrase "only four parts"

many boilers have only four parts, and back boilers less parts,

thats all mr know nowt,

 

The Intergas is a COMBI with only FOUR moving parts. A Bermuda with a pump, 3-way valve, cylinder thermostat, boiler stat and a gas valve. That is SIX moving parts, as the 3-way valve has two moving parts inside. It will be eight if it has a double valve setup, which most had. Bathroom changers !!!

 

ha ha ha, the bermuda has no pump, no cylinder stat, it does had a gas valve and a boiler stat, but if your counting stats then potentameters must also be counted, a Bermuda has no 3 way valve either, miss julies's does BUT THEY ARE EXTRA'S ON THE SYSTEM they're not in the boiler, your searching the wrong google pages Walt

hook line and sinker,

 

Jesus Walt what is it with you and this Intergas stuff, your either an interfgas employee who is constantly spamming the site or some muppet who has been sold one, which as to date do not have a proven track record unlike the Baxi Bermuda which has lasted nearly 30 years

 

Oh my God! Plumbers! A combi has most of the system controls all in one case. A non-combi system has the controls spread around the system. If you add up all the controls and moving parts in a system, the Intergas combis walks all over the Bermuda for simplicity and reliability. Bathroom changers!

 

I have no connection with Intergas. I was always an admirer of Atmos (rebadged Intergas), but they were very small and only worth buying in the south of the country around London. Now Intergas sell direct in the UK. It is clear you never read what I wrote. Read before typing. A Bermuda is an antiquated cast-iron inefficient dog, dating from 1966, and only fit for the scrap heap. The new Bermudas are modern floor mounted condensing heating boilers behind an electric not gas fire in a sealed box. It is room sealed. You simply remove the electric fire to get at the condensing boiler. I know of one that was fitted into a chimney breast in a kitchen with an access door in front. The new Bermuda has an integrated condensate pump. These pumps are available separately for any boiler. I have also seen an Intergas fitted in a similar position. With the Intergas combi, space was saved all over - redundant space in chimney breast was used and no cylinder fitted. Having one in the living room means the fan can be heard.

What I wrote.....

 

Miss Julie? You still there...

 

What are you asking here, Julie? Whether you can run the Heating and HW independently of each other (which you seem to know you can), or whether it's best to have the hot water on for longer so it's constantly 'topping up' the heat as opoosed to chust one hour? Or just whether it's better to have the heating and HW on at the same time as opposed to separately of each other?

The simple answer is to have the HW and the Heating on for just what you need, and no more.

If you reckon that a one-hour heat-up of your hot cylinder will provide all the hot water you need for the day, then I'd just set that programmer to provide just the 1 hour of HW for whatever time you'll find it most useful.

Then set your CH side to whenever you need hot rads.

That simple.

If the two times overlap, that's fine - the boiler will cope. If they don't, then no prob either - each system will get what it wants.

If your hot cylinder won't provide what you need throughout the whole day from a 1-hour charge, then have it coming on for a further, say, half-hour for a 'top-up' just before it's needed again.

Eg: I guess you'll want hot water first thing in t'morn for 'morning' stuff, so that suggests you'll have it coming on at , ooh, 6am-ish for around an hour to provide 6.30-onwards bathroom use? The tank will therefore store the unused hot water (ie most of it) throughout the day. Then you will likely want more hot water for when you come home in the eve, for washing-up and showers? So you'd set it for another, ooh, half-hour top-up at 5pm-ish, because it would have lost some heat during the day.

So, in total, the hot water would be on for - say - 1.5 hours per day. No need to have it on for longer if this does everything you need - and having it on for longer would simply be a waste.

Remember, stored hot water that's not being used will be a waste, and the hotter the stored water, the greater the waste. So, if you work out (by trial) that only a half-hour HW heating in the morning will provide adequate hot water for your morning needs (your basin taps don't need to be scalding, do they?), then you might want to swap these two timings around - 1/2 hour in the morn, and 1 hour in the late afa' to provide plenty hot water for evening showers and baths.

Just sort this by trial and error; how much hot water do you need at each time of day, and what is the minimum time you'll need the boiler to be on providing that hot water. Work that out, and set your programmer to that.

What doesn't make economic sense is to have the boiler on for any longer than you actually need chust to keep your hotwater 'topped up' so's it's always very hot. All you are doing is heating your loft. The hotter the cylinder, the more heat it will lose.

Ok, if the cylinder is really well lagged so that a hot cylinder in the morning is still hot in the evening (hardly any heat loss), then it won't actually make much difference if the HW is kept on for longer to keep it fully topped up all the time, and that might well be a wee luxury you are prepared to pay a bit more for?

But, as a general rule, you heat up the hot cylinder to provide just what you need - no more.

Stored hot water that is unused is a waste...

 

It is best she fits an Intergas in the loft with an outside weather compensator sensor. This also keeps the hot water spike down in winter and saves gas.