I'm looking for some advice on a drainage issue at my property (SW London, Edwardian Flat). I am in a first floor maisonette flat. The flat below mine is having damp issues, as is the flat below and across (my flat and the first floor flat next door have no damp issues) The down pipe (cast iron) appears to be blocked and the water is filling back up the down pipe and gushing out at the lowest joint which is about 4ft from the floor and subsequently soaking the walls of the groundfloor flats. The landlady of the property below and across one, arranged for a drainage company to have a look at the issue. Once they reported back to her they have provided her with a quote which she has sent round to us all as we are liable to share the cost. When I saw the cost I was shocked: £1500 + VAT which covered the following. Removal of Cast Iron down pipe Installation of new UPVC down pipe Carry out a Look & See CCTV survey from the down pipe to establish where the down pipe leads to "We suspect the down pipe will lead to a soakaway, if this is the case we will provide a report on the condition with a quotation on any necessary repair (if applicable)". I'm not happy at paying a quarter of £1800, especially when that could potentially not be the end of the matter. Coincidentally, on the day I received letter from land lady next door, I actually had the roofer round who was clearing out the gutters. He gave me a ball park figure of £300 (including materials) to remove the cast Iron pipe and swap over for a UPVC pipe. Being a roofer he's obviously not got the equipment to then survey the pipes, but I'm not sure whether this is necessary. I'm wondering what the best course of action is; My initial thought is get the roofer to remove cast iron pipe and try and clear the blockage as best as possible using a set of £20 rods, then install new UPVC pipe & hopper. What are the chances of having a broken/blocked soakaway? It seems unlikely to me and I think there is a greater probability of it just being bunged up with deposits from the gutters (The amount of gunk, leaves, moss etc the roofer removed, would suggest there is a good chance of this being the case) If anyone with similar experience can offer any suggestion or if there are drainage professionals who can suggest what a fair price (including the CCTV survey) would be it would be greatly appreciated. I did actually phone the company who quoted and ask them for a breakdown of the cost. I was waiting for a call back but funnily enough they didn't phone me back!
I used drain rods to clear a blockage in the front down pipe, too lazy to remove down pipe, you might find one of those spiral pipe cleaner will do same job & easier to get up/down the pipe. Once you remove downpipe, it's easy to test the soak away by pouring water down the pipe,gully. P:S: £1800, rip off in my opinion, how many storeys?
Being a Victorian house there's a good chance it's connected to the mains, there may even be a gully trap at the bottom of the cast downpipe, if so its probably just blocked in the trap, an easy job to unblock. If it is a soakaway, it would probably be only a hole full of hardcore, these are almost impossible to unblock without digging them out. £1500 + Vat, seems excessive, even for London.
Your initial thoughts are spot on. Get your builder to change the pipe, and clear the drain if possible. If he fails, then the cost of new pipe will now not need charging from the professional rip-off merchants and just inspection and clearing if necessary. They will also have a simple means of access with quickly removable pvc pipe. So if your builder fails, you have lost nothing. Not only that, you could temporarily have a shoe at bottom of pipe to allow water to run over surface until it's fixed(if the ground is suitable) Mr. HandyAndy - Really
You can get ' Cast Iron Style' plastic downpipe if appearance is important, but it does cost abit more though. Brett Martin, Floplast both offer a full range.
I recently had a drain CCTV survey carried out, and it cost me £150 to have done. Most companies cctv equipment will struggle to fit down pipework, which is smaller than 100mm bore pipe. Also if one is carried out make sure that it is recorded and the medium is provided for evidence purposes, I once paid for this and the guy promised to send a cd out in the post but never did!
A friend had a survey done last year, she gave the bloke a sd card to download everything recorded which he did.
You might even find a man made well, this is what I found in my house. In the old days the rainwater was used and stored in the well for washing and gardening use, from it ran a large lead pipe what was flanged at the bottom, to act as a filter. some kind of pump would have then pumped it up when needed. Will the local water board have any plans?
If the gutters get blocked regularly, what is the landlady proposing to do about this. if new down pipe is fitted, maybe install a debris collector or interceptor trap, so that it can be service annually.
Wells & water board is a bad mix, a few years ago on a job I found a well, owner wanted it filled in, so she contacted water board, so much hassle & grief, could only use clean stone, no recycled stone to fill it, must have cost owner thousands to fill it in, & she wouldn't cap it either, which was cheaper.
Our one was about 7-8 ft deep. It was nicely brick corbled at the top. Soem of the other one up the street (hill) were about 30ft deep
Pretty shallow, in village where I lived many years ago, they average about 130', some top of village were about 170' deep,some were brick, others stone,always been amazed at the construction of wells, like your, they are a work of art. The Woodingdean Well, Brighton is really impressive engineering for a hand dug well, some 1,285 feet (392 m) deep. http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/page_id__6948.aspx
If the down pipe is feeding into a gulley, then it is very likely that most CCTV co will not be able to get their equipment down there. It may take a bit of ringing around, as I too tried for this for a 3" pipe. There are systems available which operate down to 16mm bore. If it feeding into a soak away, then it is very likely that its has done it job and needs replacing. Basically a hole in the ground filled with rubble/stones to help disperse the water into the ground, if it been filling with debris then it slowly loses its efficiency over time as it fill up with matter. A bit like a permeable driveway, nice sounding but overtime they loose their efficiency. If the cast iron down pipe and hopper are in sound condition, then there is no need to replace, if maintained they can last a long time. I have seen some down pipe that have thinned down to a fraction of a mill. and eroded the metal. If it the down pipe is to be replace look at the Brett Martin cascade range. Fitted some a few years ago and look very good, even at close range they still look like CI, they do some good style hoppers to.
For some reason I was thinking this was a maisonette. When I had a flat I had to pay quarterly maintenance and service charges. What is carried out regularly at the property? As I had a council leasehold flat, they can sen upon request what money has been spent for this year on this side of things.
Casade range, couldn't think of it's name last night, very good range, agree their hoppers are very good, well designed & stylish products, & available in several colours. http://www.brettmartin.com/en-gb/plumbing-and-drainage/products/cast-iron.aspx http://www.brettmartin.com/~/media/Files/Plumbing-and-Drainage/Cast-Iron/Cascade-Brochure.pdf More than likely rainwater goes into main sewer rather than a soakaway, you might find gully is competely silted up, & need cleaning out, or replacing as in my case, crud was too compacted & I was too vigerous with a pry bar & knocked a hole in the bottom of gully.
Thank you all for your replies, there is some great advice here. All the neighbours are happy to proceed with my plan, which should be happening early next week. I've decided to go with the Brett Martin 'Cascade' Range. It certainly isn't cheap, but with the cost being split 4 ways, it's not too bad. I've got my builder to reroute both the gutters from the roofs above bay windows of the ground flats, into a secondary hopper which will be about 2.5m above the ground. If any inspection/camera work needs to be done at a later date its only a 2 metre section to be removed - handy! My Builder quoted me £240 +VAT for labour and then let me use his account to order the materials which are coming around £200. With £40 on top for me to buy the drainage rods from screwfix, the job is coming in just over £500. A bit better than the £1800 being proposed by the rip off drainage mob! I'm just wondering if my neighbours will be generous enough to buy me a festive drink for all my work.... fingers crossed.
The work was completed today; My gosh, there was soil, grass, small roots and a couple of really large worms. All this debris, went about 30cm up the pipe plus the 50cm below ground leading to the gully. After corkscrewing, plunging and sticking my arm down the drain for a good while I managed to clear all the down section and clear a couple of inches out the gully. Unfortunately I wasn't able to fully clear the gully, but downpipe has been left in such away that removing a couple of screws will give me easy access to the drain. It's been raining most of the afternoon (light/medium showers) and the downpipe is running through okay. I did an initial test by pouring a full bucket of water down the hole. It didn't clear instantly, but after 8-9 seconds all water had gone. If there are some serious storms I think we might be in trouble. I'd hate to have to get the drainage guys in after making it this far on my own, but thinking I might have to at some point. (I reckon they're going to come in and clear it in a couple of minutes). I might have another go tomorrow and try to free up Gully. Couldn't get rods round the tight angle, so might have to improvise and try and cobble a device together.....
Go for it, having got that far don't be beaten!! Try a hose to flush through too with a bit of rotating and pulling to and fro.
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