Brexit

Can't believe how many times I have asked that question.

It was obvious from day 1 immigration wasn't going to be stopped this way, and i still maintain non european immigration will not be altered and may even worsen, depending on what trade deals are done with what countries. The refugee/migrant situation will be ours alone to deal with, no european support.

Rose tinted specs, as I have said before.

How many pages will this get to ?

 

There is no plan. So nobody really knows yet (including Davies).

I don't think dramatically reducing immigration is best for many industries, but if the tories really want to enact "the will of the people" then they have to do it.

So it'll be interesting to see who the Tories prioritize: businesses or the electorate.
If Labour were stronger then they might have to worry about votes and placate the electorate.

As it is... it probably just shows that Davies is as much in the dark as we are.

 

It was only after the referendum vote that I heard a politician say that there are 4 principles of the EU with respect to free movement - of goods, services, people and capital. I was gobsmacked as I had never heard this said before and it seemed such a concise and important principle. So if you voted "out" because you no longer wanted free movement of people, then you won't get free movement of goods or services either.

I wonder how many people actually understood this simple point before they voted, or indeed understand it now?

 

This country will always have a need for skilled workers to come here. Unskilled? I'm not so sure. I'm sure our government could come up with some way to get the feckless up off their a****s. (thought the Liberalista's will complain vociferously that it's against their yooman rights to have to get up in the morning and earn a living like the rest of us) At least , out of the EU we can make a start on immigration. Why should Peter and Steven bother getting up in the morning looking for a job when they know full well that Piotr and Stefan are going to get it anyway? We need a change of attitude all round to surmount these problems. There's lots of things wrong though. A single person on the dole gets £70 odd per week for sitting at home. But,, do they only get £70 odd per week? Nah, their rent and council tax is paid for. Their prescriptions (if they need them) are paid for. Anything else you "working "people feel we should pay for?

 

Quite simply

The minimum working wage needs to be set at a higher rate than can be obtained by benefits. So that working is worthwhile.

Benefits should be there for those that cannot or have limited work ability, and set at a sensible living allowance, but for those that can work (providing work is available in their area of living) it should be less than can be obtained from working.

The problems become when mass redundancies etc happen and force working people into a jobless situation. Benefits in these circumstances should work on a progressive basis, to cushion the blow, but begin to encourage back to work situations.

But as always, lets just assume every body who is unemployed is there by choice. I have no figures, but I don't think the percentage is that high. Ever been in hard times or made redundant etc?

 

But he was happy to have a referendum without the facts being available

 

Tory thought process re bitw's post:

"Business or...um...sorry, what was the other bit?"

 

And doesn't that alone tell you why most Tory's want brexit? I know it's not a simply political party question, but look at how many Tories are against it?

 

I dunno how many are against it but if you're not putting business and capital first you're not really a Tory are you?

 

Not the full real answer, but when it came to a vote.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/762017/Ken-Clarke-Tory-MP-vote-against-Brexit


And I think this section it is good reading


“I think Mr Farage was as surprised as Mr Cameron when the result came through and we are on a voyage of discovery now with a sketchy outlined negotiating position but with nobody with the first idea with what the real negations are going to be like,” he thundered.

Mr Clarke was one of 114 MPs who voted against the European Union (Notification of Withdrawl) Bill.

He previously compared visions of a post-Brexit future to a “wonderland-type” fantasy, saying “apparently you follow the rabbit down the hole and you emerge in a wonderland where suddenly countries around the world are queuing up to give us trading advantages."

 

May is just enjoying her 15 minutes. She's a hideous snooping crone, Imagine being opposite her at a negotiating table. I think I'd cut my nose off to spite her evil face!

 

DA gonna *** in his pants when he sees the title of this thread.

 

I've heard the "We'll take the skilled, but not the unskilled immigrants" argument before.

Farage likes that soundbite. A lot.

I don't understand it.

If immigrant job competition is bad then I don't understand why we're happy for skilled immigrant competition to squeeze young British people out of, or down the skilled job market.

I don't understand why we'd make it harder for British people to be computer programmers, geneticists or engineers if increased immigration means less job opportunity.
I don't understand why we don't want Polish plumbers, but we do want Polish programmers?

Why is this?

So British young people will then be able to pick up the zero hours contracts waiting on their foreign skilled overlords?
British workers working in fields, because that's all we're good for*?
Just don't ask a Brit to do something skilled, amiright?
Perhaps British young people can all compete as Uber drivers hoping to land a half hour gig (at less than minimum wage) driving around the immigrants who write the Uber apps?

I don't understand why you bemoan the lost potential in British unemployed, whilst advocating increased competition within those jobs where British people can maximize their potential.

Is this a particularly British viewpoint?
Do you miss being ruled by foreign feudal lords?
Was 1066 the high point of your history, when the Normans took all the positions of power and we could be their serfs?
DON'T ANSWER ME BACK JJ! Just tug your forelock peasant! Know your place - which is tending the skilled foreigner's estates.

Businesses aren't asking for this, or rather half of businesses aren't asking for this.
Businesses that need skilled labour welcome skilled immigration.
Businesses that need unskilled labour welcome unskilled immigration.
Because increasing supply decreases price.
Of course businesses welcome immigration.

...but, as you've probably guessed, I'm lying. Because I do understand it. We all do.

Willie Sutton robbed banks, because "that's where the money is".
Why does Farage's "keep out unskilled migrants" rhetoric work?
Because that's where the votes are.

It's possible for us to disagree about the right amount of immigration into the UK. Sure.
But this skilled/unskilled split? It's cynical, hypocritical, manipulative and condescending political nonsense designed to divide the electorate.

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* but only from July to September as agriculture is seasonable. October to June those British workers can go back on the dole or clean the houses of the Swiss bankers.

 

And spoil the fun. NO.

 

Well thought through.