Builder problems

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by SmartyMarty, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. SmartyMarty

    SmartyMarty New Member

    I've had a builder dragging his feet for a couple of weeks so I sent him a 'time is of the essence' message and has agreed to finish by this Friday. The problems I have are a leaning/bulging wall and possibly a dangerous RSJ.
    The wall has a bulge in the middle and is leaning out, which is weird because at the top the cavity is around 65mm. It's an internal wall and the outside wall is leaning out very slightly.
    The RSJ is on the padstones 50mm both ends which he assured me was fine, but now I'm suspicious of him I've done some research and it's possible it must be 100mm minimum - I believe 150 was spec'd.
    Does anyone think 50mm is ok and what is the maximum deviation in a wall that is acceptable? Whats the minimum cavity width?
    Photobucket is being a pain so sorry for the links rather than images
    https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsCyqTznexGAirQoQBTFDteA_QHI7g
    https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsCyqTznexGAi4Eg-8nUmq-x5skw8w
    https://1drv.ms/i/s!AsCyqTznexGAi4En6kvfoKauM6WPlA

    In the last pic the 50mm insulate is tight against the inner wall so you can see the cavity width.
     
  2. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Hard to see in those pics what the issue is?
     
  3. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    Kool...you better get here quick!!
     
    koolpc likes this.
  4. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

  5. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    Block work is very poor. Should be 150mm bearing for RSJ.
     
  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    RSJ should have a minimum bearing of 150mm.

    Cr@p blockwork, got a good case against builder.
     
  7. RSJ going into party wall both sides should have 4" bearing each side.
     
  8. Doall

    Doall Active Member

    Is the rsj sitting on blue bricks (engineering)? Are bc involved
     
  9. SmartyMarty

    SmartyMarty New Member

    The rsj is sitting on a pair of reinforced concrete lintels that were cut to size. Its about a 4.5m span iirc. Is it dangerous as it stands? I'm guessing the builder measured before he cut the hole and didn't count on the 1.5" of mortar on the walls. They are solid stone walls with mixed granite and limestone as far as I can see.
     
  10. Smarty, the second pic shows the bulging wall? This is a 4" block wall? Not sure how dangerous or technically/structurally unacceptable this is, but it's a sign of very poor building work.

    I cannot think of any good reason why it should be like that. The mortar lines are also not neatly horizontal - not a structural issue, but indicative of a guy who is simply not a brickie. The very first time I laid bricks (no smart comments, thank you...) it was done properly. Ok, it took me a stupidly long time to do it, but it was - if I say so myself - 'perfect'. Why? Because I knew what was needed; I set up all the levels and guides, and I took my time to ensure each and every brick was laid as it should be. So, it ain't rocket science.

    Your guy has not set his levels and has not maintained checks throughout. The result is a pile of blocks laid by 'eye'. This is going to need additional work now to ensure that how ever it's boarded is done to make it level again.

    I wonder if it's ever structurally acceptable? I mean, when you consider what you have there - a wall of 4" thick blocks which deviates by 2". Could it possibly be argued that what you have ended up with is effectively - from a weight/compression point of view - little more than a 2" thick wall? Ok, not entirely - but it's weight bearing has surely been compromised?

    What loads is this bowed wall carrying?

    As for the RSJ - can you confirm what you mean by "The RSJ is on the padstones 50mm both ends which he assured me was fine, but now I'm suspicious of him I've done some research and it's possible it must be 100mm minimum - I believe 150 was spec'd."

    Are you saying that the padstones are 50mm THICK, or that the ends of the RSJ - lord help us - on sit by a 50mm amount on each padstone?

    Can you take some more photos - keep them under 2MP - and post them direct on here? Show us the ends of the RSJ and where they bear.

    I have to ask, why are you wondering if 150mm was spec'd? Why don't you know? Don't you have drawings and an SE's calculations for this job?

    And, as asked above, when is the BCO gonna turn up? He's the guy you should be asking.

    I'd be worried if I were you. That appalling wall is enough to tell you these guys are NOT experiences builders.
     
  11. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    You need to get Building control out to have a look asap If you haven't made an application then put in a Building Notice NOW. Who spec'd the beam?
     
  12. SmartyMarty

    SmartyMarty New Member

    The rsj was fitted over a month ago and because of assurances from the builder I had it boxed and plastered. Yes I do mean the bearing ends are 50mm on the padstones. I gave building control a copy of the SE's calculation as well as the builder.I have no idea where my copy is as the room has been moved about five times and I was told everything was good. BC took a photo as evidence, but it was taken at such an angle as not to show the bearing depth. I've emailed them now to ask how to go forward and await a reply tomorrow on both issues. The builder gives me assurances that the wall is fine as well as the rsj.
     
  13. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    If you have boxed in the RSJ without the B.C. seeing it, they will make you open it up for inspection.
     
  14. SmartyMarty

    SmartyMarty New Member

    BC saw it with the padstones covered with cement but accepted a photo as evidence. The photo was taken at such an angle not to show the bearing depth. Builder assured me that 50mm was fine and the rsj is 'not going anywhere'
     
  15. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    If it been passed by the B.C. I wouldn't worry to much, its not going to fall off and is sitting on something strong.
     
  16. There should be a minimum of 4" bearing above the brickwork excluding any plaster/render.
     
    longboat likes this.
  17. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Oh dear.
    It looks like the 'builder' is as bad at measuring things with a tape measure, as he is with using a spirit level too get things level.
    I think he's ordered a slightly short RSJ and is trying to wing it!
     
    SmartyMarty and KIAB like this.
  18. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    I can't believe that a building inspector would sign off work that's so crucial to a buildings integrity based solely on a peculiar angled photo. It could be a pic of another build entirely, for all he/she knows!
    If it is the case, then maybe builder and inspector need reporting. Especially, the inspector!
     
    KIAB likes this.
  19. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Once you start opening up,etc, you never know what horrors, bodges may come to light.:eek:
     
  20. Fair chance it ain't going anywhere - it's amazing how strong such structures are, and min 150mm obviously includes a large measure of 'to be sure'. So, enjoy! Live happily! Don't worry about it! It might never come crashing down on you or your family!

    cough

    50mm is taking the pish. 50mm!! That is focusing the sheering forces from that heavy RSJ - and all that it's carrying - on to a 50mm deep footprint. I know that our local BCO would not even accept 100mm as a 'compromise' - it's 150mm or 'do-it-again'.

    Smarty, your builders are sh**e. Complete cowboys and chancers. There is simply NO excuse; it's as easy to do this work properly as it is to bodge it as they've done. How cretinous do they have to be to get a wall that bowed?! How imbecilic to not measure an RSJ - the single most vital structural component in your conversion - to its required length?

    Have they no shame? Have they no pride?

    You need BCO out NOW to check all this work.
     
    longboat and KIAB like this.

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