Got asked by my local Landlord to look at his main bonding conductor or 'reported' lack of it's compliance by the Breweries nominated contractor on a recent PIR. The Pub has a submerged Calor Gas Tank in the rear Beer garden. Underground supply then emerges at the rear of the pub and terninates in to a main Isolator 18" up the external wall. At this point there is a 16mm tri-rated earth cable bonded on to the 35mm pipework. The 35mm then rises up the outside wall to first floor joist level then does a 90 left and runs along the wall for 4m and then T's upwards in 22mm to the 1st floor ceiling height then in through the wall and in to another Iso which then runs on through the ceiling to the Pub's Flat accomodation Boiler. The other outlet from the T joint outside then runs on along the outside of the wall for another 4m or so and then ducks in through the wall in to the Pub's kitchen to feed the various Gas appliances. The heating for the Pub in general is served by 6 A/C units so the Gas supply is just for the Flat's boiler and the Kitchen cooking eqiup' The Breweries Sparks has told the Landlord that there should be a 10mm main bond terminated by the Iso on the 1st floor ceiling supply on the inside of the building before it goes in to the ceiling and has stated that the existing 16mm bond outside is not compliant! He's made no mention of the supply coming in to the Kitchen at all which is the same setup as the 1st floor entry. The original 16mm Tri-rated bonding was done on a full rewire & refurb of the Pub 5 years ago or so by a big local NICEY firm and I'm with them in saying this install is fine as it is. The floor is open...................................
Is this a trick ? Cannot be answered unless a) does the flat have it's own CU? b) where does the pub bonding go? c) what sort of supply? tt-tns-pme None of the bonding should be outside.
JP, what difference would that make? When I install main protective equipotential bonding, I never "strap an iso". Why would I need to? Fit the bonding clamp in the correct place, just a single one. Job done.
Fair nuff Lec and no doubt you get the correct reading at the end of line..the prob is m8 under a hard test the reading might just go out of the window. Just as a note Sines gas riser goes into T which then feeds various stuff/floors etc. So at the end of all this must be the 0.05 ohms or less cont reading on every outlet and to avoid HRC's (or potential HRC's) etc then strapping to me seems a necessity. Also the various DB's are I assume all fed off the same 3ph riser.
The flat would still be considered to be in it's own euipotential zone, even if the ctts were fed from the cu in the boozer. Ergo, it would still need it's own bonding.
Not sure I agree with that. What if the 4 or 5 circuits of the flat are fed from the main DB? What if the circuits are shared with the pub? What happens in a large commercial or industrial install with tens or submains? Still only one MPEB required then. If the flat had it's own service it's a different matter.
Are you just trying to confuse the very simple thread on purpose I cannot see why you speak of the 0.05 limit when talking about "strappings", unless I completely miss what you mean by "strappings"??
The flat would be considered it's own euipotential zone as it's living accomodation. Buidling regs would certainly consider it thusly and would expect it to be seperate to the pub, in terms of fire regs etc. Even if the ctt's were shared with the pub (please tell me this isn't the case) it would still need it's own bonding back to it's own marshaling block and thence back to the pub cu. Factories etc, totally different matter.
Still not sure I agree - building regs have little to do with our regs. If the flat was in a seperate building, yep, but a few rooms that form part of the same building? Not in my eyes. In factories you have "building marshalling points" where you have seperate buildings. I consider it to be the same in a pub with a flat. If the flat is part of the same building, there would only be one requirement to MPEB.
No one lives in factory. Therefore, the flat must be considered as a "seperate" building, ie a dwelling. The gas pipe, indeed any pipe considered extrainious, entering into the flat, must be bonded, regardless of whether there is a CU in the flat or not. If this where not the case, then why not bond, say at the very start of the gas supply? Then every buidling on the supply would be "bonded".
If there's a brass stop-cock with compression joints on both ends going into copper or lead pipe there's little point in strapping across them. In fact although the bonding should go on the customers side it would make no difference in practice. Just like the gas bonding, it needs to be done on the customers side of the meter of course and should be before any branches but occasionally it's just not practicable. A couple of weeks ago on a c/unit I had to do the gas bonding in the kitchen, the meter was on the other side of the tiled floor hallway and the gas pipe was tee'd off to the boiler under the concrete floor so I bonded to the pipe where it came up to the cooker supply. Far better than what was there before, none at all!
This pipework was old JP, probably before ptfe was in use, and of course I did check continuity of the bonding and it was below the required 0.05 ohms right back to the meter.
See what you mean Sen and agree fully. At the end of the day everything measured out nicely - no probs.
If the flat is a self contained unit with it's own consumer unit, then it should also have its own main bond conductor to the gas pipe, that is the official stance.
That's right LD - every flat with its own consumer unit obviously has its own met, thus the met is used accordingly. Theirs no circumvention from that fact surely?
Sorry boy's, fell asleep watching Billy Connolly's route 66! Not sure if the Pub's flat has it's own DB or not as the Landlady was having her afternoon sleep when I called to have a proper look and the Landlord was at their other business premises. I need to go back and ensure the res reading is low enough as the TPN supply is in the cellar at the front of the Pub 15m away from the rear of the Pub where the rising Gas main is. Also there is no issue with Meters etc as this is a CALOR supply from the Beer Garden so this is a point of entry issue in my eyes. If the 35mm riser just wazzed up the wall and in at 1st floor joist level then yes bonding there would be more common although inacessible due to it being under floor boards. The fact that it T's off outside to a Kitchen over 4m away hrizontally & 2.4m vertically, therefore makes sense to bond it at the begining of the pipe run after the main Iso. If not then what do U do, have two main bonds in 10mm, one going to 1st floor ceiling level where the flat supply comes in to the Pub storage area (Flat is on other side of building) and another 10mm going to the Kitchen intake (again at ceiling level) Landlords asked me to run a 10mm from the existing clamp outside where the 16mm Tri-rated bond is and zippy tie it along the run of the pipe and in to the Iso position at the first floor ceiling flat supply just to get 'them' off his back. ...........oh, and no, this aint a trick question, even the best don't have all the answers!
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