Can I temporarily insulate a conservatory roof?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by tonynoarm, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Well-Known Member

    If in saying batts, you mean rockwool type insulation, then I wouldn't go there, it will soak up any condensation, as opposed to Celotex type board insulation which is waterproof.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  2. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Yeah, what do you mean by "insulation batts minus the foil"?! :p

    Yes, you really should have a foil layer there somewhere - or some other form of impenetrable membrane. The whole idea is to isolate that upper roof section where the rafters are so that no moisture can 'breathe' through the ceiling and get up there where it can condense and possibly cause problems. And, if any moisture does get up there, then there's adequate ventilation up there to remove it.

    So, if you are asking if you need to add a foil layer as well as Celotex (which already has foil both sides), then no. If you are asking if you can get away with a rigid insulation sheet that doesn't have foil on it - ie: bare foam insulation - then, well, I dunno. I mean, I guess you could be a real cheapskate and fit Jablite (polystyrene foam sheets), and I guess that's pretty much impervious to moisture. And I guess the better polyurethane insulation sheets are pretty much moisture barriers too - I dunno.

    But - really - for the sake of a few sheets of decent quality 25 or 35mm stuff... :rolleyes:

    And, as Phil says, I wouldn't use that fibrous batten stuff at all - that's yuck.
  3. bjp11scot

    bjp11scot New Member

    Hi DA
    OK following the guidances given to me I have finished the work
    With one exception - contrary to general opinion I did install an inspection hatch (which I sealed and insulated)
    I just could not bear the thought of not being able to get up there and being able to have a look at what is happening 'on the other side'!
    Maybe just as well that I did this because on the top side of the ceiling (flat section only) I used Rockwall insulation (170mm) as well as the Thermaline Plus 27 - then later after getting back on to the forum I note that there was a comment saying it is not the best solution - but at this juncture it was just a little too late for me to change direction
    So I will keep my eye on any possible condensation forming and if necessary change this insulation out with an alternative
    On the sloping sides I doubled up with Thermaline Plus 27 boarding and did not use the Rockwall
    In addition to the 'natural air vents' up there I did drill the cross ventilation holes and covered with mesh - so I am hoping all should be well
    I supported the joists with your 'purlin' to the apex and fitted 3 vertical hangers using the screwed rod from the original set up
    One thing which I found most important was to ensure that the upright batons were drilled thro centrally into the conservatory framework
    I fixed these batons with both screws and an impact type sealant
    After completing the work I finally decided to engage a plasterer to finish the ceiling off as I didn't feel confident to install the PVC roof panelling
    I have added photos below

    Conclusion
    While very happy with the outcome I reckon that it was a bigger challenge than I anticipated
    Perhaps for a professional guy it would prove to be a piece of cake but I must admit it all was a new adventure for me
    Finally allow me to thank you for your valuable advice and guidance - without this I would certainly never have attempted it or for that matter completed it
    Now I will sit back and see how it all pans out over the next year - this is when the real judgement will be given
    Regards
    Bob
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  4. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    that's nice - but (voice of doom moment) - that's an awful lot of additional loading being imposed on a structure designed to be lightly loaded
  5. bjp11scot

    bjp11scot New Member

    Sean_ork
    Hope you are wrong !!!
    I will et you know if your voice comes to fruition
  6. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Well-Known Member

    I'm with Sean on this one, the whole of the load will push out onto the side wall/windows, I can see you have some vertical ties but to be honest they are very weak looking, only tied to the structure with L brackets on a thin piece of timber.
  7. bjp11scot

    bjp11scot New Member

    Oh well!!
    No doubt time will tell eh?
  8. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    SH**! BALL*****! BL**DY 'ELL!

    That's an awesome job, Scottie!

    Ok, ok, ok, you've removed the actual 'tie' bar wot was holding the sides of yer connie together?!

    But - hey - y'know what? I doubt it'll matter :).

    Structures like this new framework you've made tend to be stronger than you imagine - they work as a 'whole'. So, what you have there is a sturdy ceiling framework (which ain't going anywhere) supported by numerous sloping struts which in turn bear down on yer wallplate. I'd have thought that very little force is actually acting out sidewards. And what there is will be held together by the whole ceiling framework.

    I doubt very very very much you'll have any problems with that at all.


    Extra vents? Good job. Again, I doubt you'll have any condensation problems with your rockwool because of that. Good move too to not put the rockwool down the slopes - keep that as fully vented as possible with just solid insulation.

    And the addition of a (very neat!) hatch is always a good, reassuring move.

    All in all, I reckon you should be bludy chuffed with yourself :cool:. I am mightily impressed (tho' that's quite easy to do... :rolleyes:)
  9. bjp11scot

    bjp11scot New Member

    Thanks DA
    After the feedback from the other guys I am/was doubting the structure
    I utilised the original steel tie-bars for the 3 vertical supports and added additional plates at the base of each (not shown in the photos that I sent) and I have managed to lay across the top of the joists prior to plastering (this was to adjust the insulation and to ensure that it was not touching the conservatory sides)
    We have had MONSTROUS weather since starting the job with really Scottish rain and gales - during these times I must admit that I went on visual inspections more than once but all was fine
    By the way I finally used 3x2 joists
    Thanks again for your support really - really - really appreciated :)
  10. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    really ?

    have a good look at this image - where's the first point of failure ? - and how is that short timber fixed ?

    I'm not trying to dismiss this project, the end results are very good - but ........

    rather than cutting that short length it should have been carried on up to the apex - to form an A with an opposing length, with the bottom chord bolted through - a DIY truss formed within the existing structure

    fortunately the jet stream appears to have hopped over us this Winter, or perhaps it spent it's worst on you lot ;)

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  11. bjp11scot

    bjp11scot New Member

    Sean
    I take your views on board - thanks
    In answer to your question - the 15 vertical batons are screwed and fixed with impact adhesive to the conservative wall-plate, the vertical framework and horizontal joists
    We do get a fair share of weather up our way you know - unfortunately pretty regular :( :(
    I promise that I will come back to you this time next year (I hope not before) to let you know how it goes
    Regards
    Bob
  12. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Totally understand what you are saying, Sean. Yes, it would have been ideal had these sloping rafters been continued up to the apex - not that I thought to suggest that to Scot before... :(.*

    (Darned fine idea for the next poor cove who tackles a job like this... :rolleyes:)

    However, I come back to what I said before - it all acts as a 'whole'. That main ceiling rectangle is pretty darned strong, and not even a Scottish breeze (i.e. - equal to gale-force 8) will pull it out of 'square'. One end is held very firmly by the house wall, and the other end in a similar way has very little splaying force on it. So, that whole main ceiling area is a strong framework which will only 'bow' out the central sides of the connie if the ends do so too. Which it won't.

    It ain't gonna happen.

    I'll stake my non-existent reputation on it...


    * And nor did you :p
  13. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    looks like I'm going to have to have a better look at your homework in future Master DA
  14. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Look, nothing I've ever done has fallen down yet. Even if it was designed to :oops:.
  15. Dan.Rochford

    Dan.Rochford New Member

    UPDATE....

    Almost completed ceiling this weekend. Should be finished sometime this week, image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    Any suggestions on boxing this section off at the top of the stud wall that the previous owners for some reason didn't decide a wall needed to connect to the ceiling???
    I'm thinking of making a baton frame so wood drops vertically from the ceiling and forms a box roughly 2" away from the wall so I can install dimming spotlights..

    image.jpg
  16. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Hey, awesome, man. :)

    (But stagger them cladding butt joints tho'... :rolleyes:)

    No 'solution' to how to finish that gap - basically anything you want. Either bond in a strip of Celotex, overlay with p'board, tape and skim or else make it a feature like you suggest.

    That's second-hand cladding, yeah? 'Cos it's darkened quite a bit from exposure. If you feel it is too dark (not saying it is, of course...), then it's also a nice feature if painted. I'd just use matt emulsion applied by brush along the grain, or satinwood at a pinch.
  17. Dan.Rochford

    Dan.Rochford New Member

    The cladding is new just stained quite dark to match the main central beam of the roof, also I did stagger best I could but was restricted by lengths of the cladding, I've suggested to the wife painting is a possibility in future (no doubt the colour scheme will change again haha)

    I will keep you updated on the finished product
  18. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

  19. dapex

    dapex New Member

    Jst wanted to say this thread has been amazing... I started looking into this this evening and started off looking at professional firms to do the job.. Its amazing to see how many people have done sch great jobs already.. As soon as I can get some time I will be copying you all:):)
  20. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Where exactly in this thread is 'temporarily' apart from in the title ?

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really

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