Can I temporarily insulate a conservatory roof?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by tonynoarm, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    Haha thanks Sean!

    The main issue with insulating the outside is safety and physically getting around the conservatory - my shed sits a square pavement block away from the end of the conservatory blocking up that whole end and the conservatory is up against the neighbours fence meaning I would need a lot of access to their back garden. The whole process would be awkward and harder for me to do than going from the inside. But thank you very much for the suggestion!
     
  2. Sean's idea is 'best' - but just not practical.

    Which kinda sums the guy up...

    (Now he's going to spend an hour wondering if that's a compliment :rolleyes:.)
     
  3. Imp, looking at your earlier indoor photo, it looks as tho' you have narrow, triangular, tapering glazing in the upper section of your connie walls to match the slope?

    See the horizontal ali section running just below that - the one at the top of the main window, well the best internal solution, I think, would be to do as suggested in the posts above - glued and screw timber battens to that, all around the perimeter, and take new roof rafters across from them, width-ways.

    3m span? 4x2 should be ok. That then leaves a nice space above these rafters to fit 'normal', easier to handle insulation such as Celotex. (a rigid sheet.)
     
  4. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    how is it not practical ? - there's a perfectly flat framework there to build off - just need to ask the neighbours for a bit of access, being harder and awkward isnt ........

    I'll shoosh now - good luck with your project Ms 85 :)
     
  5. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    Hi DA yes you're correct - However I have already got multifoil insulation (ready since November but as said previously had no spare time yet)

    With this in mind, could I just staple that to my new 'lowered roof' and carry on as I was before with the second set of battens and pvc cladding?

    So I would have battens of 2x1 around the whole perimeter but then 4x2s sitting horizontally? Could I not use 2x1s for the whole thing? And put them across vertically as though matching the existing roof?
     
  6. Just a lot more work, that's all.
     
    impsince85 likes this.
  7. If you have the quilt, that's absolutely fine - use it.

    2x1s are not going to span a 3m gap without sagging horribly and possibly even snapping...

    That's why you'll need 4x2s I reckon. The whole idea is for the new joists to be completely separate from the upper roof - no contact whatsoever. A self-supporting frame secured around the perimeter of the walls.

    And something really secure to support them at the joist ends. So your 'wallplate' (that's what the timber running around the perimeter of a house's wall on which the rafters/joists sit on is called) would have to be very securely attached to that ali frame. Screws will be needed, as well as the type of adhesive I mentioned before (don't worry about heat affecting it - it won't).

    I guess you could just about get away with using 2x1 for the wallplate, but that doesn't give you much of a ledge for the joists to sit on - better off with 2x2s.

    Your 4x2 joists will then need cutting snugly to length (inside width) and a rebate cut from each end the shape of the 2x2 wallplate. That way the joist should sit on top of the wallplate and finish pretty much flush with it at the bottom. Does that make sense?

    Are you sure you are up to this? Not exactly a first-time DIY task, though not too technically challenging either.

    The foil could then be stapled to the tops of the joists, and you could even infill the 4" void created by the joists with or'nary loft insulation; this can be held in place with a breathable membrane stapled to the underside of the joists before being clad with your PVC. I think that's the simplest way, but others may have better info.

    In all, this is a far better solution that trying to attach to the existing roof ali bars.

    One thing to avoid is for any condensation forming in any space above the ceiling. Perhaps others can comment on whether the 'sandwich' I suggested above would be ok?
     
  8. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    Hi DA

    I think I would be most happy with this option as it seems the safest... Just more work. I understand what you mean apart from this paragraph where I'm slightly confused...

    "Your 4x2 joists will then need cutting snugly to length (inside width) and a rebate cut from each end the shape of the 2x2 wallplate. That way the joist should sit on top of the wallplate and finish pretty much flush with it at the bottom. Does that make sense?"

    I'm determined to get this done and will try as best I can I just need to understand this part better. Also I will still need vertical battens to attach my cladding too - securing it at the sides and at the vertical rails in the middle. I don't know quite how these would fit in unless I do them straight under the horizontal joists but that would also mean another lot of battens around the perimeter again too (I suppose this is what I would've done anyway had I been attaching it to the roof as first planned).

    Thank you very much for your help so far and I hope I can get the hang of this! And yes any other help/advice on condensation/ventilation in the area above would be most helpful!
     
  9. I didn't have a f ag packet...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select





    Nice to see you recycle paper, using a piece already used for printerhead alignment. :)
     
  11. My head badly needs cleaning.

    And my printer needs...
     
  12. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    Ah ok yes that's a good diagram thank you :) what does that say at the bottom, spaced at 600 what? Do I just use the saw I'd use to cut the battens and joists to size to create the rebate on the joists? Do I need anything in the corners under the perimeter to support the wall plate do you think?
     
  13. The joists - chust to follow convention - should be spaced at 600mm apart, measured to their centres. But, since that spacing isn't essential in your case - securing long lengths of cladding - space them out evenly, but no further than 600mm apart.

    The joists should ideally go widthways, since that's the shorter span of 3 metres. However, that would usually mean the cladding would have to be fitted lengthways - ie at right angles. If you don't want that, you'll need to counter-batten the opposite way first.

    Yes, a normal saw to cut the rebates, tho' you'll find it harder to cut into the end grain. A new cheap throw-away saw will still do this, tho'.

    Try and measure it carefully according to the actual size of your 2x2 'wallplate', and cut on the 'waste' side of the marking lines.
     
  14. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    Thank you DA that all makes sense and I will give it a good go!

    How do I counter batten - do I join the vertical battens to each of the horizontal battens as they reach them with a rebate like I did for the wall plate, is that the best way?
     
  15. Counter battens are just battens run at ninety degrees to the other ones, so that the cladding can then run in the same direction as the main joists.

    All you'd need are 2x1's for this, screwed into the 4x2 joists again at around 600mm max centres (or whatever spacing the cladding company recommends for their cladding.)

    Does that make sense?
     
  16. impsince85

    impsince85 Member

    It does make sense, thank you DA, can't wait to get started now! Back at work today but the kids are at their Dad's for this week of the hols so hopefully I can get it done in the evenings before they get back fingers crossed! :) thank you for all your help I really appreciate it!

    I would like to do the same to the floor afterwards - with thermal plasterboard and probably underlay and lino on top, do you know if it's all the same spacing? I also thought about getting some plasterboard with the insulation for the pvc frames on the side opposite the main windows which are just pvc all the way down for warmth and for places to hang things up etc, would they work thermally as stand alone do you think?
     
  17. Blimey, there's no questioning your enthusiasm :).

    You sound as tho' you are totally up to this job, so cooooool.

    What is your floor currently made from - is it tiles, for instance, on a solid sub-floor? Or floorboards with a space underneath?

    Essentially, tho', yes you can add a layer of insulation on there which will make a large difference if there isn't insulation already. But hoe to tackle this will depend on what's there already. I doubt very much you'd be fitting joists tho', so 'spacing' isn't an issue. It should be a lot easier than that.

    As for walls, then yes you can add stuff there too - insulated plasterboard as you suggest, but I'm not sure how this would be fixed or whether it's the best solution.

    What I'd suggest is take some photos of the walls and also investigate what the floor is made from, and then start completely new threads on these topics ("Insulating connie walls" & "Insulating connie floor" etc )where the pros on here will be more likely to answer - this one is getting looooooong :).

    Good luck and keep us posted :D
     
  18. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

  19. Biochef

    Biochef Member

    Where do you live I will come and do it for you , I'm pulling my hair out of my head reading all the suggestions and changes to plan
    If you decide to do sides as well then you have to frame around sides and now you have negated having to fix to existing roof as it will now be fixed to new frame I will take £300 and do it in a day and a half you supply materials and tea,now you haven't mentioned lights or power points because it's getting dark in there with all the walls and cladding on ceiling :confused:
     
  20. I chust knew the likes of Sean and Bio were on the verge of breaking... :rolleyes:.

    Wouldn't it be brill if Bio lived close? :D

    And Sean is buying his plane ticket right now...
     
    impsince85 likes this.

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