Hi, We are having a ground floor kitchen extension built and it has a pitched slate roof. This is our first building project. The majority of slates were put on in one go, leaving 1-2 rows below the ridge line. A week or two later the builder finished the job, but the slates they used leading up to the ridge look completely different. They are a totally different colour and texture. I appreciate that slate is a natural product but the slates don't even look like they are from the same quarry. Our builder is flatly refusing to do anything about this, despite us saying we are not happy. They have said there is no problem with the function or installation of the roof and we are being unreasonable asking for the unmatching slates to be replaced. They have said that the slates are from the same supplier but they were purchased at different times (I'd argue that they should have bought enough slates to finish the job in one go, ensuring they were all from the same "batch"). They have also cited that their roofer of 40 years experience has said this is not an issue. I'm really looking for some expert opinions as at the moment it is just our word against theirs. As you can see from the photo the slates really do stand out. It's not like this is a patch up job, this is a totally new roof. If the builders continue to refuse to make good the work, what is our next course of action? Thanks all.
Not a nice situation to be in. I have about 5 slate samples here. The problem is that there are so many different types of slates coming from Spain, and as far away a China. What slated were specified in the job? Builder should have bought ample to cover the whole roof and for waste etc. Slates then to be graded as before being laid. It could be that a min. purchase is required for these slates (pallet) so builders have sourced from elsewhere to make up for shortfall. General View from window slates to ridge on either side not symmetrical, could have been avoided when setting out. Is it an equal pitch roof? Left Hand side Exposure of the slate (i.e what is portion of slate not covered by next slate) doesn't seem to be consistent with previously laid slates. Looks about 1" more. I wouldn't be happy with it either.
Many thanks for the detailed response. To answer your questions:- 1. the roof is of equal pitch either side of the ridge, but to the left of the picture is a party wall with our neighbour who is building an identical extension with the same builder. We live on a hill and their extension is taller than ours. Each side of the roof is therefore of different length. I'd assumed that the difference in symmetry was therefore unavoidable, or is this something else I should flag up? I must admit, it doesnt look great but can live with it if it's reasonable. 2. The arrow does not indicate another row of slates, the ridge is sat on lead flashing. The flashing protrudes the bottom of the ridge on both sides by equal amounts. Is this normal? 3. As for sourcing the slates, the builder has said they have sourced all slates from the same supplier, albeit that the uppermost slates were bought several weeks later.
Hi baron. Your builder knows this isn't acceptable, but has been landed in a pickle by not having bought enough slates from a single batch to begin with, and is now hoping the problem will go away. By denying there is a problem. When I had my slate roof redone around 10 years ago, the builder bought more than enough slates for the job from a local Builders Merchants, and then returned what he didn't need at the end of the job. I can't comment on the more technical bits as Jit has done, but from a purely visual aspect, that is not acceptable. Your builder does know this. He was sweating uncomfortably as he laid them, muttering quite badly under his breath. He knew he should have stopped as soon as he realised - after positioning the very first slate - but convinced himself it would be ok; it'll 'weather' in time', or 'it'll rain before the customer sees it so it won't show', or 'my customer can be blagged off...' Whatever it was that went through his mind, it was wrong. So, as much as it'll grieve him, he needs to replace them. He is probably panicking that he cannot get any more of the original shade - so what then?! Is it a major visible issue from the ground? Is it on a side facing the approach to the house, or from the garden? If you think you can 'live with it', then perhaps you can negotiate a discount with the guy? Or, if only one side is a properly visual headache, he can swap the matching slates over to that side and have all the lighter ones on the 'hidden' side? If he becomes bolshie or belligerent or shouty or unreasonable at any point, you need to sit him down and say "Look, I know this isn't good for you. It's a shame it's happened. But - it is an eye-sore. It is unacceptable. I'm sorry - it will have to be sorted." If he doesn't, then you tell him your only alternative is to get another builder to do so - and then you'll sue him for the full cost. And you'll win.
Bottom line is, the worst case for this builder is that he has to strip the sides and put all darkies on one side and lighties on t'other. One or two day's work at the most. He's really got no reason to complain too much.
Thanks for the detailed reply. We're mid terrace so the roof is not visible from the ground (garden). It is directly visible from the first floor window (at eye level) and top floor window when looking down. Our builder has actually been incredibly belligerent; my wife was very upset after speaking with them and they accused her of wanting an argument. They raised their voice, talked over her and made comments like "you cannot even see it from the garden", "it's not like it's a work of art hanging in your house that you'll be looking at all the time". Jitender is right, it is a horrible situation to be in but we cannot help but feel that we are being beaten into a corner to accept work we are not happy with. There is other work we have lined them up to do (replae bathroom and relay driveway) and have been happy with work to date, so I'm not sure why they are taking this approach.
Not sure they they have used lead? I have seen ridges formed from lead. Also if the lead work hasn't been oiled using patination oil, it will eventually leave stains forming on the slate roof. How have the ridge tile been secured, mortar alone doesn't adhere well to lead. A mechanical fixing should be use for the ridge tiles. If the slate do happen to be the same variety then I think the best way to minimize the look is to lay them random in the roof, which would mean stripping the roof. Symmetrical aspect, is it possible that the ridge tiles are not in the center line of roof? do you have a photo from the front showing the ridge. The last row of tiles have been cut short resulting in minimal overlap.
Thanks for the useful information Jitender. I'll ask the builder about how the ridge is secured, but from what I can see they are just secured by mortar. The ridge tiles sit along an RSJ. I think the ridge tiles are in the centre line, as I say, each side of the roof are different lengths which is why one side comes up "short". See photo for end view of extension.
Ridge does look centralized. I think I can just see the outline of the steel in between the battens, looks like it has been positioned as first picture. This is what may explain the additional battens at the ridge.
'It's not visible from the ground'. Ok, that puts a different complexion on the issue. It would all - if it came to court - come down to what is 'reasonable', and I suspect (but don't know for sure) that it wouldn't be considered reasonable to expect, say, the roof to be reslated so's each side looks an even colour. So, since it's only visible when you look out an upstairs window, I think I, personally, would be prepared to accept it - whilst making it clear my disappointment that he seemingly took this for granted. He should have checked first. What is definitely not reasonable is for him to become at all belligerent. How totally unprofessional of him. I cannot comment on the technical issues that Jit is referring to, but I think what I would do is sit the guy down, and make it very clear your disappointment ("we chose real slate because appearance is an important issue for us, and we can't believe you'd fit a totally different shade without consulting us first..."). Add how unacceptable his attitude has been, especially to your wife; ("We are lay-peeps here - we are effectively at your mercy as the 'professional'. If we question a point over work done to our house - that we'll have to live with for many years - we do not expect to be treated with anything other than professional courtesy.") What's the financial situation with the builder? I mean, I presume you pay him in stages? What stage are you at? Could you afford to 'lose' him if needed and get someone else? It's all your call, but if he's anything other than contrite and apologetic - and especially if he's still belligerent - I'd be tempted to show him the door. Point index finger, left hand; "You're fired..."
A workaround(or a bodge to improve) would be to use the patination oil for the small amount of leadwork, to include going over those lighter coloured slates. This would blend them in, protect them from the weather longer, and possibly age(colour-wise) at a similar rate! That might appease both of you. Possibility. Mr. HandyAndy - Really
The ridge fixing seem insufficient from the pictures it looks like he has used some sort of gunable adhesive rather than cement or mechanical fixings. Third a way along on the right it looks like a pile of goop has been put down and the ridge pushed on to it. I like the spare ridge left in the gully at the far left of the picture ! How does the water drain out of the gully at the end where the spare ridge tile is because it looks like it is capped ? There is something odd about the way the slates meet the roof lights but I can't place it
This pic is really odd, it gives the appearance that the doors are narrower at the top than the bottom.??
Here are some close up pictures of the ridge, the end tile was loose so I moved it back to look underneath. It looks like the ridge has just been attached to the lead strip with mortar i.e. there is no mechanical fixing.
The lead work looks like the edges have been oiled, as discoloration from the rain is shown in the major area. Not happy with the ridge worth, the ridge tiles will eventually work loose due to not good bond between lead and mortar. I would get them to replace the 2 top rows laid, making sure the slates reach to the center of the ridge line. Did they do building regulations drawings?
Ok, I am not a roofer, so don't shoot me yet (Wry, put the bludy gun down...) I do not understand the use of lead along the ridge. Why was that done? Is it 'cos the last two rows of slates weren't set at the correct heights? If you look at picture 3 (attached, with arrows), you can clearly see (look at the lower arrow) where the top edges of the second-from-top row of slates end, which is an inch or so shy off the ridge tile. There's then a half-slate positioned over these slates which the ridge tiles do manage - just - to 'catch'. However, if you look at how far down the lead sheet comes down - which is virtually to the same line as the top edges of that (the second-from-top row) row of slates, then is seems pretty clear to me that any rain pouring off the lead sheet will be landing almost exactly above that slate's top edge - see the top arrow. I would suggest that it's almost certain that water will get in between the joins in the very top rows of slates and land on the top edges of the row of slates below - and then make its way underneath. It would appear to me that these roofers have not laid out their slate spacings (fixing battens) properly, most likely either due to a simple error, or because they reckoned they could stretch the spacings out and save on a row of slates. But I'm pretty certain - looking at that photo - that the lead sheet does not overlap that 2nd row of slates as required. Basically, the 2nd row should be higher to begin with (so's they go well under the ridge tiles). I think. It looks like a bodge to me. Perhaps a quiet word with the BCO? Any roofers on here?
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