Hi, had a conservatory erected and the floor tiled, TBH the workmanship has been pretty poor in many aspects. Most of the tiles along one edge have come loose (they are hollow sounding). The installers blame condensation, under the tiles, causing this. It has bee noted by a friend that the DPM has been cut off level with the top of the brick base rather than taken over the top of the brickwork and the conservatory frame placed on top. He says that moisture is therefore coming up between the bricks and the floor slab and condensing on the back of the tiles as well as getting back into the floor slab rather than being kept below the tile by the DPM. I have uploaded a picture of this. Is he right? and therefore do I have a more major problem that just loose tiles?
Thank you Mr Handyandy and BLUEJACKET for the confirmation, the story is much longer than above, I was about to take the installer to court when this was pointed out. I now have to find a "professional" (body or person) that will provide a written "expert" report that the installer cannot dispute and the courts will accept the word of (if necessary), anyone any ideas? I have argued with the installer since late 2014 when they refit the tiles FOC and in doing so broke 3 and replaced them with ones of a diffrent size, colour & thickness, he said (in a letter) that is all he is prepared to do as the condensation is not his responsibility. This is a eureka moment for me, so grateful for your opinions.
Is the glazing toughened glass, any that is below a height of 800mm from the floor needs to be, also glazing on a door also needs to be toughened which falls within 300mm of any door if fitted. It may be good idea to contact your local building control department explaining your concerns with the build, they are normally happy to help and advise. Have any payments been made? Has a DPC been fitted on the dwarf brick wall?
This is how the DPM should be laid, the first picture is a solid wall the other is cavity wall construction.
Jitender The glass is all up to specification. It is full glass from floor to roof. The wall that the frame stand on has no DPC as (I am told) it's not needed as the frame is plastic but the DPM should have been lapped up and over the brick it seems and this has not been done. He was paid by Building society cheque on completion back in 2011. I have contacted the local Building Inspectors, again, and hope they will show some interest this time as conservatories, they tell me, aren't covered by building regs. I assume Building control is the same as building inspectors? Just seen your second post, thank you, the DPM has not been fitted like that, just comes up the inside of the brickwork and is cut off level with the top of the bricks instead of going over the top on a single cavity wall. My picture on first post shows this. Here is another picture of the Dpm v Frame.
Was the conservatory installed by a glazing company? Most glazing companies are FENSA registered, which only protects the glazing element of the build. Your local council will have a building control department, and there are building control officers who work in the department. During the works did anyone from BC come and sign of any aspects of the build? If the company was taken to court, and the cost of the conservatory falls under £10,000 it would be settled under the smalls claim department.
They are a local Ltd company, FENSA registered but as you say that's glazing only so they wouldn't get involved when I spoke to them. No one came out from BC as far as I know, I assume because basic conservatories dont need that remit, we did need planing permission only because we had use our allocation on an extension and yes we are under the 10 grand.
I'd be very cautious about making such a big deal over the DPM, its only in the last few years that it has been lapped into the DPC, prior to that it was always done as your is, there are thousands of house's/ conservatories around the country that don't have issue of damp because of it. Generally conservatories don't need building control regs so tread careful.
However, he would expect his floor to be protected from the damp, and as you can see the bricks below dpc(or sill level in this case), it is not protected, which would be the installers responsibility wholly. Mr. HandyAndy - Really
It was the installer that blamed condensation as he found damp underneath the tiles he had laid in place pending getting replacements. Up till the point my mate said about the DPM I was countering his argument on the basis that the floor slab had settled, due to witness marks all around the frame except were the tiles were loose and therefore these tiles, in my opinion, had got hung up on the frame and therefore come adrift. I had asked for the floor to be completely re tiled at the installer cost because he broke the 3 tiles and tried to get away with mismatched replacement but.... Then this point was made and I though, if correct he has already admitted in writing that condensation was the cause therefore he can sort it out now at his cost and I have an almost concrete argument until Phil the Paver comments, it was put up in 2011 if that helps.
This picture might help, its the area that one of the loose tiles came out of, after the levelling compound had been put down etc. In other words the finished floor surface in2014.
My guide to the building regs published 2006 show a continuous DPM should be laid over the brick. The DPC can be avoided if engineering brick or other material is used which prevents the passage of moisture.
Question has to be, "why is it damp" generally it wouldn't be, remember there are thousands of house's without a DPM that are dry so not having the DPM dressed across the DPC shouldn't in its self cause the problem. The other problem I'm having with the tiles not sticking, is why would damp cause a fully stuck tile to come loose, when in the pic the adhesives looks to be ok. I fear that the problem is more along the lines of the OPs thinking, that the sub-base is moving some how.
Phil the Paver as a "layman" I will try to answer your points. I do feel the base has gone downwards, I was removing the grey "witness" lines (about 3/4mm above the tiles) from the PVC frames without giving the reason any thought. When I came to the first corner I found that tile loose. Checking along the adjoining side I found most of the tiles sounded hollow and had no "witness" mark. Those that did had a "witness" mark above them seemed to sit lower. The next corner tile was loose and all the tiles along the next edge also had the same witness line above them. All the edge tiles, except those sounding hollow, had the grout crumbling between them and the PVC frame this included the ones against the house wall. At this point I stopped cleaning the line off and called in the installer. He disagree with me but agreed to refit all the tiles along one edge so I took pictures of the witness marks etc as I didn't believe him and got used to his ducking & diving! I contacted Uni Bond who's adhesive was used and they confirmed that persistent condensation/damp would eventually cause the adhesive to loose it grip. When I sent then some pictures for comment they without hesitation said it was due to moisture coming up the outside of the DPM and condensing on the back of the warm tiles and that the warmth of the tiles would assist in drawing this moisture upwards and that is why it's only the outer row of tiles that came adrift. The installer, when he returned 3 months later to fit the remaining tiles, found what he called condensation and used this as a get out to not to do something about the three mismatched tiles he fitted to replace those he broke. I do not want to make this thread picture heavy but will have attached 3 that shows why my reasoning. As for not having a DPM or DPC my garage has no DPM and the floor sits some inches lower than the kitchen that it adjoins, I cannot put my metal tools boxes, metal trays etc directly onto the floor as within 24 hours the concrete is a different colour and woodlice make a home underneath as well at the box bases going rusty, all appliances are sat on wood blocks these are sat on heavy duty plastic. We are at the top of a hill, mid 1960 build with a yellow clay sub soil no more than 18" down. The conservatory was erected over 5 months (yes 5 months) in 2011 and the problem was found about mid 2014
In your pics, pic 3 show crumbling of the grout along the house wall, this wall will not have a dressed DPM ever, So if you had raising damp, how would you stop it here???. Personally I think your being for off with excuses that don't exist and your tiles are coming loose due the movement either in the floor or the conservator itself.
Looks like the tile adhesive hasn't fully adhered to the tile, depending on the type of tiles i.e ceramic and porcelain there are different types of adhesives available. A flexible one should have been used.
Uni bond (whose adhesive it was) say it was the correct one to use for the application-yes I also had a photograph of the bag, lol.
Building control have confirmed that the DPM is not fitted correctly, however. They will not get involved only to say that, should they have been required to examine the building work they would have insisted the DPM was lapped over the brick top.
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