Economy 9 meter, help me understand.

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Edie, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. Edie

    Edie New Member

    Hi,

    I've recently bought a flat in London, I have Horstmann Series 2A dual supply meter running Economy 9 tariff. There are two storage heaters and immersion heater. EDF has told me that this tariff is off-peak from 22:00 - 07:00 but on their website it states that I quote:

    "2 MPAN Economy 9 – This type of meter provides nine hours of cheaper electricity specifically for room and water heating at various times of the day on the off-peak rate. We charge for electricity for all purposes (other than room and water heating) at the relevant day or off-peak rate."

    Now from what I can see what they are telling me is wrong. I took notes of meter readings over 24hrs period at 15 mins past every hour. It's permanently on Rate 2 from 00:00 to 06:00 and then it does something weird, it alternates between rate 1 and 2 constantly from 06:00 to 00:00.

    For example readings from 09:00-19:00 are Rate 1 30087 - 30093, Rate 2 40386 - 40394.

    My question is, what is going on there? Are my storage heater permanently on all day? From what I understand I should have 6 hours at night and 3 hours during day of rate 2 but there is no period where rate 2 is used exclusively apart from those 6 hours at night.

    I've attached picture of my customer unit, as far I understand circuits on the right are supposed to run off rate 2 only. correct?

    Thanks in advance,
    Edie
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    A photo of the meter?

    How can you be sure at what time during the 09:00-19:00 the units were used on Rate2? They could of been used late afternoon, which is typical of E10 tariffs.

    The best thing to use (and I hate advising people to get these) is a non contact voltage detector. Use this next to your storage heater flex to see when it's live. Your meter or teleswitch may well have a flag to show you though.

    Non contact voltage detectors should be used to prove dead, and should not be relied upon, but will give you a good indication.

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/c-k-non-contact-voltage-detector/9396d?_requestid=13835
     
  3. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    Edie you are correct in your assumption of how your Consumer unit works and you'll also notice it will have 2 lots of meter tails eminating from it.

    Identify which pair feed the off peak side and then purchase one of those cheap electricity energy meters or blagg one for free of one of the energy companies.
    Tiz then simply a case of clipping the CT device (Doughnut ring) over one of the previously identified meter tails and it will tell U when and how much and at what time this draws energy.

    Most of these dual Tariffs over 7 Hrs usually have their remainder energised just after lunch time up to around 15:00-16:00 Hrs
     
  4. Edie

    Edie New Member

    @Lectrician

    Well I know what units were used as I wrote down meter reading every hour, it tells you what tariff is on by "rate now message" 0000-0600 it says "rate now 2" permanently and from 0600-0000 it alternates every second saying "rate now 1, rate now 2" there is no a single time in this time period for it to say rate 2 only like it does for 6 hours at night.

    I'll try to get this energy meter or voltage detector and see what shows.

    Thanks
     
  5. Edie

    Edie New Member

    Ok I borrowed Black & Decker BDS200 Pipe and Live Wire Detector and now can confirm that at this time of the day wires going to my storage heaters and one of immersion heater are indeed dead. This brings another question, what is going on with my supply? Is it possible that I only get 6 hours of cheap electricity throughout the house at night and not during daytime with only storage heaters getting few hours of boost supply somewhere in between 0600 and 0000?

    Here are my readings:

    0915 1) 30087 2) 40386
    1015 1) 30087 2) 40386
    1115 1) 30088 2) 40386
    1215 1) 30088 2) 40386
    1315 1) 30088 2) 40386
    1415 1) 30089 2) 40390
    1515 1) 30090 2) 40393
    1615 1) 30090 2) 40394
    1715 1) 30090 2) 40394
    1815 1) 30091 2) 40394
    1915 1) 30093 2) 40394
    2015 1) 30095 2) 40394
    2115 1) 30096 2) 40394
    2215 1) 30096 2) 40396
    2315 1) 30097 2) 40402
    0015 1) 30098 2) 40406
    0115 1) 30098 2) 40407
    0215 1) 30098 2) 40409
    0615 1) 30098 2) 40420

    To me it looks like this it the case, cheap electricity from 00:00 to 06:00 and then only heaters getting extra boost throughout a day with anything else using rate 1, is it possible?
     
  6. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    My understanding, is that they should supply the 6 hours on the cheap rate, then supply the extra hours as and when they can obtain cheaper electricity.
     
  7. stateit

    stateit Screwfix Select

    Yep, that's right. It's a Dynamic Teleswitching Service... No fixed times in the daytime. You may do your noodle in trying to fit a pattern to it.

    With EDF it is:

    (a) five hours during the period between midnight and 08.00 hours,
    (b) two hours during the period between 13.00 hours and 17.00 hours, and
    (c) two hours during the period between 20.00 hours and midnight.
     
    Edie likes this.
  8. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    Good point Stateit!

    Edie, are your heaters getting the house warm enough?

    If so then find sumat else to worry about! [​IMG]
     
  9. stateit

    stateit Screwfix Select

    Dynamic Teleswitching Service:

    Not a nice system to be working on if you assume (with good reason generally) that the 'off-peak' supply is going to be un-energised during normal working hours.

    So be aware and make sure you properly isolate all 'off-peak' circuits when working on them. The belt you'd get off a circuit full-load could well be fatal. :(
     
  10. Edie

    Edie New Member

    Thanks, this makes much more sense now, EDF customer service has no idea what they are talking about. Shouldn't my meter reflect that? I mean for example its showing rate 2 from 00:00 to 06:00 and then it alternates between 1 and 2 for the rest of the time. Wire going to my storage heater was life yesterday at 13:30 (meter alternates rate 1 and 2) but was dead at 23:00 (meter showing rate 2) ? Is my entire electricity during this period rate 2 or is it mixed 1 and 2 ? I'm really confused and obviously would like to know this to turn on my dishwasher and washing machine at appropriate time.

    Thank you
     
  11. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Hi Edie. if you defo want to use cheap leccy to run your appliances you could have something sorted with an electricain to make sure you have sockets connected to the o/peak consumer unit, as youve no other way of knowing what time it will be on the cheap rate. Other option change to another supplier who can provide you with specific times, im on economy 10 with OVO, and get midnite til 5, 1-4pm and then 8-10pm.
     
  12. Edie

    Edie New Member

    Hi,

    Well I managed to narrow it down a little bit with live wire detector to 13:00-15:00 (sometimes 13:30-15:30) and 22:00 to 00:00, and 02:00 but don't know till what time but i think at 06:00 is off so this means I'm missing some hours, should be getting 5hrs at night. I have someone from EDF coming around to have a look at my meter next week so hopefully all should be clear.
     

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