Electrical changes (new cooker wire + new sockets) - fact check :)

Only napit and stroma registered sparks can sign off 3rd party electrics and they need to be present from start off install not many sparks will do this

 

NAPIT and STROMA run 'Third Party Certifier' schemes. This allows a member to Certify the work complies with the Building Regulations. They will also issue a EICR(Electrical Installation Condition Report) at the end of the works. But as Sparkielev says you must arrange all this before you start the work.

 

I'm a Sparkie, I get request to do this quite often, what I do is offer to hook it up and test and issue a 'minor works' certificate. because when i enter your property all I'm doing is hooking it up to an existing circuit no need to notify building control. Also no EICR is required. although you will get the schedule of test for that circuit.

You do not need a metal Consumer Unit, only if you change it does it need to be changed for a metal one. Regs are not retrospective meaning anything installed previously is fine if it meets the regs for the time of install. If your ever told it doesn't meet current regs it needs changing its a lie.

 

I'm an honest guy, the amount of time ive been called to do a big job because they been told it needs replacing and I'm like well it would be good if you did but you don't have to is unreal! haha Don't like taking work on the basis of a lie!

 

All these wonderful mis-used workarounds. How much do you charge to do that WPS? Not enough most likely!

 

I charge my half day rate @ £125. But I don't see how its a miss used workaround? if they need it hooking up, I can connect it, test it issue a cert with limitations, if a result comes back iffy I can explain to the customer, 9/10 times I get the fix it.

Silly thing is to do it start to finish it would cost them the same! as it would take less than half a day.

What would you do Unphased? turn down the job? and let a sparkie with no qualifications do it? or even worse the one with 20 years experience but cant even do an RCD test.

trust me if I could say no your on your own, and every sparkie was on the same page, I would but I know if I said no they would get one not competent in wiring it up doing it.

 

That's the way to do it Mr X. Work with your spark.

 

Yes I turn down the job, WPS. I don't do 3rd Party testing and inspecting. I don't see why DIYers should be allowed to cheat the system by doing all the important stuff themselves, ie running cables, connecting up accessories and the like, then expecting somebody to just turn up and sign it off. Even working with an electrician is taking the mick because the electrician is not getting paid for the time in advising, testing or even signing off the work. It is just not worth the hassle. It was never intended from the outset that DIYers should be allowed to do their own wiring without first involving Building Control. Part P has never been properly administered and all the "workarounds" are just masking the problem. DIYers should be competent to do everything and just say nothing at all. They effectively want the best of both worlds IMHO. They want to do the work , get advice for nothing (ie forums like this) then pay peanuts for someone to give them a piece of paper to say everything is compliant. Certificates cannot be issued by anyone other than the person who does the work. It certifies that it is compliant. An electrical installation condition report is not a certificate and just reports on the condition of the wiring. So you issuing a minor works certificate is wrong because you cannot certify somebody elses work. The "bit" you join up is your workaround and is basically worthless in the whole scale of things. DIYers should be competent in all aspects including testing else they should not do it. Thats my opinion anyway. All the workarounds are nothing more than that in an attempt to to satisfy rules but clearly it is all a mess. If you look historically at electrical installations throughout the decades, testing has always been brushed under the carpet because few electricians do it, few understand it and ultimately everything seems to be made up.

 

UP in an ideal world it would not be necessary to test a new installation. As if the design was correct and the installation carried out by a skilled person using equipment and cabling specified, all testing should do is confirm that they have done their job properly. In quality management the output is ensured by design and process not by post production testing.

eg How many garages put a car on the brake tester after fitting brake pads?

 

Hi mate, first off I'm not kicking off here so you knock yourself out. What you should know though, and perhaps you do not already, but what your doing is 100% against the law. You can't fudge the issue or say it's a workaround, the law is very clear on this. It's not like BS7671 which is only a standard rather than law so you don't legally have to work to it. Anyway, the point I'm making is that if something should go wrong I'm an 100% certain that your insurance company would not pay any damages in light of the fact that they would insure only your work and no one else's. And this is coupled with the fact that what your doing is illegal so you could end up in court over it. I guess it depends on the level of the damaged caused and the nature of cause that started the incident, fire, electrocution etc.

 

And which particular Act of Parliament or Statutory Instrument would the CPS use against poor WPS when they bring him before the courts?

 

Mate we have been over and over this. Part P does not allow for it. You can't certify anyone elses work except your own if you intend to notify. If your passing off on other people's work you are in breach of part p = buildings regs = the law. And no he can't "sub it out" as the diy'er would need to be on his books. And yes 7671 does allow for multi-signatory certs but this doesn't work as in the previous point.

Ergo, it's against the law.

And no I don't give a ****. I'm just telling it like it is.

 

@WPS always second source an opinion, or in the case of the law - consult a legal professional for advice.
The following assumes you live and work in England (different regulations apply in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)

That said, on your own you can consider how serious your breach of the Building Regulations 2010 (a statutory Instrument) might be. You will find a the Part P bit in the Schedule 1 - Requirements. As these are regulations laid before Parliament as a Statutory Instrument they can be easily changed by a Secretary of State and have been over the years.

It is also worth nothing that the regulations also give the power to Local Authorities 'to dispense with or relax requirements'. So, the Building Regulations are not cast in stone like much primary legislation, such as the Health and Safety at Work Act that makes specific reference to Offences.

You can of course refer to 'Electrical Safety - Dwellings Approved Document P' for more information and guidance as to how you might comply with the Building Regulations. You may also have to comply with other Building Regulations as part of buildings works associated with an electrical installation.

Just to confuse further, there are a host of trade bodies, associations, training companies and suppliers all with their own take on the building regulations. Some offer excellent help and advice and some are just trying to frighten you into buying their offerings.

If you do a quick search for prosecutions under "Part P", you will find that the few that do exist are dealing with the really bad not genuine people who have made a mistake. An example of prosecution (NICEIC source). The objective of 'Part P' was to make domestic electrical installations safer and as long as you are trying to do that we should all support you, but remind you that there are some rules you should be following.

Good luck

 

its really an impossible situation to sanction from any point of view to be quite honest. People will always find a way around what should be done because that's how life works. Somebody knows something and another person knows something else but few people know everything so something always gets fudged.

 

I really don't get why you don't just get the sparky to do the lot? How much, exactly, are you saving? Cant be more than a few quid? Anyway, good luck.