End of Radiator Balancing

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Ryluer, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

  2. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    just another 'get rich scheme' sold to the easily persuaded, If you've already got:-
    powerflush,filter,descaler,chemical additives, heat reflective paper,solar panels, cyber opperated stats,low energy light bulbs,low calorie chocolate,non alcoholic beer,low tar cigarettes,good baterial vogurt,low profile high milage slick shoes, you'll probably like these valves too, :)
     
    FatHands, PaulBlackpool and KIAB like this.
  3. PaulBlackpool

    PaulBlackpool Screwfix Select

    :D:D:D:D:D
     
  4. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    These valves probably have their place.
    Which isn't stand alone properties but district heating where a fit and forget potential has obvious benefits for the installer.
     
  5. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    there is no such a thing as ' fit and forgot' in the plumbers world, everything that plumbers fits, will leak,not work proper,not work at all,come on when you don't need it,not come on when you do, make the pipes knock, cause the garage door to open,sieze,need bleeding or need servicing every year, :(
     
    Plumberbish and KIAB like this.
  6. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    The plumber who fitted the plumbing in my home must have forgot cos I ain't seen him in 30 years.LoL.
     
  7. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    you have to meet the plumber half way Ryluder, call him, complain,it's his fault your roof leaks or your paints cracked, he's not a mind reader :rolleyes:
     
  8. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I wouldn't want to read Ry's mind :eek::eek::eek:
     
  9. sam spade

    sam spade Active Member

    No reason why they shouldn't be used in new build stand alone; but the builder may not want to pay the extra cost.

    In any case they are not the "end of radiator balancing" as it assumes (a) you know the heat loss in the room and (b) the radiator has been sized correctly. (Not much use in existing systems then) You then have to set the valve to give the correct flow rate and adjust the valve to give the correct differential pressure.

    It will make balancing much less of a hit and miss task; but the "end of balancing"? Dream on!
     
  10. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    Radiator sizing has nothing to do with it in this case. If the radiator is sized wrong than normal balancing using the lock shield will not increase the radiators output.

    Dynamic valve only has one adjustment for the installer to set which is taken from the graph or the technical data table.
    See here for more info...
    http://heating.danfoss.co.uk/PCMPDF/RA-DV_VDGWJ312.pdf

    So yes it is an end to radiator balancing as the valve controls the flow at all differential pressures.

    A normal radiator system is never balanced by the lockshields as the differential pressures are constantly fluctuating.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  11. sam spade

    sam spade Active Member

    And if the rad is massively oversized? For example if the house has been insulated since the rads were originally installed.

    Assuming that the dynamic pressure is within acceptable limits, which requires a special tool to check.

    I agree that a system balanced using the LS valve does not stay balanced as the differential pressures are constantly fluctuating.

    I'm not downing the valve; the concept is brilliant. I just think the typical domestic installers will not be bothered to use them as it involves maths.
     
  12. Crowsfoot

    Crowsfoot Screwfix Select

    I agree and balancing a system is not very difficult anyway.
    Don't know what they cost but I bet they're not cheap and will more than likely sieze up after just a couple of years. Anything that moves through water is never a success.
    It's just another "fools and their money plumbing case" I'm afraid.

    Anyone remember the revolution-ally pivoting radiator valve from the 70s ?
    No need to remove your radiators for decorating anymore with the new pivoting radiator valve you just swivel the rad on the floor then after decorating simply swivel it back on the wall !!!! :)
    Tappy
     
  13. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    Most rads are oversized and the trv operates as normal throttling the flow.
     
  14. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    As I said earlier these valves are probably not best suited for domestic premises but district heating systems where the trained fitter can fit and forget.
    I've fitted a lot of danfoss commercial valves and these blokes ain't no slouches when it comes to valve design and reliability.
    Though some of their domestic stuff is **** I must admit like their mv's.
     
  15. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    How many plumbers check the dynamic pressure before adjusting a lock shield?
    If the pump is undersized then obviously problems will arise regardless of what method is used.
     
  16. sam spade

    sam spade Active Member

    Of course they don't. They just set the pump on max speed and hope for the best, even if the system only needs speed 1.

    If you watch the video on using the dP tool, it's obvious that the valve works best when the pressure differential is somewhere in the middle of the range. But you will only know if it is by using the tool.

    That is very obvious.
     
  17. Plumberbish

    Plumberbish Active Member

    They look like another pain in the backside that will go wrong sooner or later...I'll stick to the old ways ta
     

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