Exposed outside wiring ? is it legal or safe?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by joe smith, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. joe smith

    joe smith New Member

    Hello
    we have recently had a new conservatory installation. There was some issues about being able to connect
    the light in the conservatory ceiling to the power supply . They needed to come back and remove pannels
    to run the existing wire to the light fitting inside the conservatory.

    What they have done is run an existing internal cable outside the house and back in through the roof of the conservatory. The wires were only intended for internal use and I was wondering if this was safe for the
    long term. ie a rodent eating through the wire that runs inside a water gutter.

    please see

    "17th Edition Changes
    The 17th Edition of the wiring regulations are now applicable and some new requirements in these may effect the design of outside electrical circuits. In particular: the new requirements for cable protection, and the implications of having a 17th edition style consumer unit.

    Cable Protection Any cable buried less than 50mm deep in plaster or other building material, should now be protected either by earthed mechanical protection, or via a RCD with a trip current not exceeding 30mA. This means that any submain that your design required to be non RCD protected (for reasons of discrimination etc), will need to be routed carefully or provided with protection to meet this requirement. When using SWA cable this is obviously already meets the required protection level, however you may need to use metal conduit to protect T&E cable when that is used for the initial part of the cable run."

    found at
    http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Taking_electricity_outside

    I have not yet contacted the conservatory company because I am not confident of where i stand. I am not an elctrician. However , this does not look right. Help please?
     
  2. GordonK

    GordonK Member

    Im no spark but I did read this in the document you linked :

    "Twin and Earth cable can sometimes be suitable for use outside, although generally it is better protected inside conduit or trunking. Note however that it is not robust enough for direct burial. The PVC may also be attacked by the UV in sunlight which causes it to harden, and in turn this may make it more vulnerable to mechanical damage. (painting can help reduce this risk)

    T&E would usually only be used outside for short runs, often clipped to the outside of the main building and out of reach in a location unlikely to be subject to mechanical forces or movement. Typical applications being connections to outside lights"

    I guess the question is how much is exposed and what kind of wire is it?
     
    joe smith likes this.
  3. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    It would be better if the exposed part was in conduit. The reason t/e shouldn't be used outside is because it can be degraded by u/v light, although there's plenty of it about that's been in place for years. Another method would have been for them to use a cable such as Hi-tuff which is suitable for outdoor use if in a position where mechanical damage isn't likely. One other way (although considered rough!) is to use a length of plastic trunking, the advantage of that is you can usually fit that without disconnecting and removing the cable
     
  4. r18rws

    r18rws Member

    photo?
     
  5. joe smith

    joe smith New Member

    took some more photos . can upload if you want. hope this one is clear
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    That bodge is worthy of my name, its not even secured in place!
     
  7. What they have done is run an existing internal cable outside the house and back in through the roof of the conservatory. The wires were only intended for internal use and I was wondering if this was safe for the
    long term. ie a rodent eating through the wire that runs inside a water gutter.

    Irrelevant of other regards, running unprotected cable in a water gutter has to be inherently unsafe. Which then leads to the quality of the work as per the photo.

    I will wait for the qualified sparks to make comments, but I would not accept it as it is
     
    joe smith likes this.
  8. joe smith

    joe smith New Member

     

    Attached Files:

  9. r18rws

    r18rws Member

    Looks like a DIY bodge not a tradesman's work! Would expect better than that....
     
    Deleted member 164349 likes this.
  10. GordonK

    GordonK Member

    yikes!

    They could easily have put that in some trunking attached to the side of the window roof pane to keep it out of the water and relatively weatherproof.

    Even as an amateur I wouldnt have done that ..thats just wrong so yes I wuld call them and tell them to properly insulate it ... bodge indeed..
     
  11. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Not acceptable. Especialy where it is, that cable will be wet, frozen, wet, frozen, baked in the sun, blown by the wind and will FAIL in no time flat.

    They need to come back and (as above) at least run teh cable in some (secured) trunking or conduit.
     
    joe smith likes this.
  12. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    If they do that kind of lash up what is the rest of there work like?
     
  13. Mr Milliamp

    Mr Milliamp Member

    Are the company using a part P registered firm\contractor or are they doing it themselves?

    You can check if they registered here

    http://www.competentperson.co.uk
     
    joe smith and paj like this.
  14. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    6242Y (twin and earth) is not designed to be routed in areas which can be wet. The installation carried out by the conservatory installers is not safe and they should be made to come back and install proper wiring INSIDE the conservatory to wherever it is intended to go. Never seen such a bodge. Good conservatory installers would never do that. The lighting wiring can be easily hidden within the PVC framing that runs along the roof apex and that is where it is normally routed.
     
    joe smith likes this.
  15. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Ave you got a wiring certificate?
     
    joe smith likes this.
  16. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    I'm not an electrician but you don't need an electrician to tell you that that is wrong.

    They could have done it two ways. Firstly to come along the house roof before exiting so then straight across into the conservatory through some pipe. Or come along, then across, but under the guttering and back up to enter the conservatory.

    Both of which I would think acceptable(I am sure it will be corrected if I'm wrong).

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
    joe smith likes this.
  17. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    He wasn't wearing a

    WWstetson2.JPG

    While using a

    white_cane.jpg

    By any chance.
     
    BigEverz, Joe95 and Mr Milliamp like this.
  18. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Well put it this way Phil they asked for fully liveried services of the horses whilst they carried out the work.
     
    joe smith likes this.
  19. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    I am guessing the conservatory peeps did this? No electrician turned up to carryout the work?
    It is not acceptable and needs sorting out. A few years down the line, that cable will be brittle, cracked, and letting in water.
    Only too often you see conservatory companies allow too little in a PC sum for electrical work, so they attempt it themselves. Either that, or they want to win your custom so badly, they allow nothing for the electrical work, and bodge whats in the way of them.
     
  20. joe smith

    joe smith New Member

    Thanks to all posters for your help. I have contacted the company and this is a written reply of how they intend to resolve it. Any further comments or observations would be appreciated.

    The reply of the conservatory company

    "Further to our visit this morning I can confirm the proposed routing for the lighting cable on the conservatory:



    • The cable will be removed from the existing position
    • It will be fed from the existing junction box along the underside of the house soffit and the underside of the box gutter, concealed within the PVCu cladding
    • It will then rise to the underside of the corner and into the hip rafter
    • It will run inside the PVCu cladding of the hip rafter
    • The cable will terminate within the underside of the ridge cladding section where its connected to the light fitting
    • No part of the cable will be exposed either inside or outside the conservatory, it will all be contained within the conservatory structure
    • There will be no need for trunking as there are no exposed cables
    • We will use standard 1.5mm twin and earth PVC insulated cable


    Hopefully this will remove any concerns you may have regarding cables being exposed outside. Please see the attached drawing for clarification."



    Please let me know when you are ready to proceed with this or if you have any questions. I will need to book both the fitters and electrician in and I’ll visit as well.



    As you were concerned about the existing cable we have isolated it for now so there is no power running through it.
     

    Attached Files:

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