Help with neutral problem

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015.

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  1. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    Help !

    I'm not an electrician but I had a very simple electrical job to do.

    My mum's garage had a double socket mounted using a plastic mounting box - surface mounted type.
    I've been using this for years with no issues, lawn mower, various drills, sanders, angle grinder, electric cement mixer - but nothing over 2600 watts.

    The socket had a crack in the face plate in the corner, so not dangerous, but I thought I'd change it because it didn't look right.

    I turned the power off - to the whole house - removed the face plate and because the wires were very short and dirty I was left with no option but to move the whole thing 6 inches to the left. I stripped back the outer insulation VERY carefully, stripped back the wires to suit [nice'n' shiney] and re mounted the box to suit.

    All very straightforward so far.

    I turned the power back on.

    Then, I decided - because I have one- to test the socket using my cheap Aldi socket tester. It's the sort with 3 LED's that light up when all is ok.

    And it wasn't ok - it showed no neutral.

    I tested some other sockets around the house and all lights lit up so I know the tester is working ok.

    So, there are only two options.

    1. Somewhere in the 18 inches of wire that I disturbed the wire has now broken.
    or
    2. It never had a neutral. [Unfortunately, because there was no issue with the electrics and I was only doing this for cosmetic reasons I didn't check the socket with my cheapo tester before I did the job :( ]

    So, here's my question - Is it possible that there never was a neutral ? ie live and earth connected only.

    Thanks

    John
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #1
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    I doubt it would have worked without a neutral, it wouldn't form a circuit.

    Double check the wire connection with the socket making sure you haven't accidentally screwed down on the insulation.
     
    Phil the Paver, Aug 22, 2015
    #2
  3. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    Thanks - I already did that - when I took the wire out it was clearly marked on the copper where the screw had tightened down.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #3
  4. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Have you got another face plate you could try, just to eliminate that as a cause.
     
    Phil the Paver, Aug 22, 2015
    #4
  5. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    Tried that already - same result.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #5
  6. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Then I fear it must be the wire.

    Is there a junction box close to the socket that may have allowed the wire to come loose during your stripping back of the wires.
     
    Phil the Paver, Aug 22, 2015
    #6
  7. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    Are you sure it is no neutral, and not reverse polarity?
     
    Lectrician, Aug 22, 2015
    #7
    FatHands likes this.
  8. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Do you mean, live wire in neutral and neutral in live, if so I was going to say that but wasn't 100% sure it would show up as no neutral on his tester.
     
    Phil the Paver, Aug 22, 2015
    #8
  9. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    Yes, It's correctly wired, and, my cheapo tester will indicate reversed polarity.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #9
  10. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    And there's no junction box nearby .... 18 inches of wire then it disappears into the wall - and sealed in with silicone.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #10
  11. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Er, if you plug something in to the socket, does that item work ok?

    If it does, and there is an RCD somewhere on the circuit, then I reckon you can guess it was always like that and it's nothing you've done to the wiring. Breaking a copper conductor is not very likely on fixed wiring.

    (That doesn't mean it's good, tho'...)
     
    Deleted member 33931, Aug 22, 2015
    #11
  12. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    You may have had a break in the cable all the while(especially where it exits the wall), and disturbing it has opened it up.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
    Mr. Handyandy, Aug 22, 2015
    #12
  13. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    That's quite likely Andy.
     
    seneca, Aug 22, 2015
    #13
  14. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Especially if the cable has a tight bend/loop exciting that hole.
     
    KIAB, Aug 22, 2015
    #14
  15. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Hi John.

    You said you moved the socket to the left to gain more on the cable. I suspect you have drilled through the neutral to gain your fixing.

    Kind regards
     
    Bazza-spark, Aug 22, 2015
    #15
  16. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    I haven't tried as I didn't want to electrocute myself :) - and it doesn't sound like a good thing to do either once you know there's a problem.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #16
  17. john_____1963

    john_____1963 New Member

    No, The cable runs on the wall , clearly visible until it disappears. Thereafter, it reappears on the other side of the wall, drops down the outside wall and disappears under concrete. It's a garage wall and as such, single brick thick ie no cavity.
     
    john_____1963, Aug 22, 2015
    #17
  18. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    If you isolate/ disconnected the cable house, you can then test invidual conductors by connecting two together & with a meter to see if there is a break in one of them.
     
    KIAB, Aug 22, 2015
    #18
  19. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Aw maaaaan :).

    Surely you have a double-insulated device - I dunno, an electric drill which has a plastic body - you can try? You ain't gonna kill yourself, man.

    Plug it in, switch the socket on, squeeze the plastic trigger (with a rubber-gloved hand by all means) and see what happens.

    If it bursts into life - as it did before you changed the socket - I reckon you have done nothing wrong during this change. Whatever is casing the missing neutral was there before.

    (If it bursts into life, then your neutral ain't really 'missing'. If you have an RCD fitted somewhere, then any use of the 'earth' for this would have made it go pop immediately...)
     
    Deleted member 33931, Aug 22, 2015
    #19
  20. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    12ins of wire are unaccounted for
     
    JP., Aug 22, 2015
    #20
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