Ideal Logic combi 35 loosing pressure on gauge ( isolated problem to Boiler)

Hi

We also have a logic 35 combi boiler and over the last two weeks its been loosing pressure. Cant find any leaks on the pipe work or radiators. Reading the above is the Heat exchanger that cracks , the main "Heat Engine" if not I cant see how the leaking water collects into the sump and drains out of the pipe.

 

For greyone & sironaq, why do you take pleasure in putting up your blood pressure?
If you read through this ''thread'', post or whatever, it details how to determine if HE is at fault. Why not try that before getting any further? 007 did

 

Not sure about Sironaq but my blood pressures fine thanks, but maybe you need a trip to Specsavers to read my post.

In past posts the heat exchanger has been mentioned for the cause of water collecting in the tied bag at the end of the condenser outlet pipe when the boiler is switched off. My question is that on a Logic 35, it looks like the Heat Motor that seems to collect into the condenser sump and that would disguise a leak and it also seems that the Heat Exchanger if leaking, would escape out of the body of the boiler into the kitchen. So which is it, the Heat Motor at £400 or the Heat Exchanger at £90.

I have a service contract on my boiler and the engineer is due out again but I'm trying to gather info. "To be forewarned is to be forearmed"

Cheers !

 

Greyone, the term 'Heat Motor' was new to me, and a 'search' seems to suggest it's actually a 'Heat Exchanger'. Yes, that's the part that costs nearly £400.

So that leaves the more puzzling part - what do you mean by a 'Heat Exchanger' 'cos you seem to think they are different things?

Anyhoo, if water is trickling oot the condensate pipe, and if the pressure is dropping with the boiler's flow and return isolated (the best test), then that would suggest a leak/crack in the main heat exchanger.

And that is one of the most expensive parts of a boiler.

But should be easy enough to oblige the manufacturer to pay for it - even without an 'official' guarantee. (Such an essential, central and expensive part in a boiler should last well over 5 years. If it doesn't, it ain't of reasonable quality or whatever the SoG Act terminology is).

There is another exchanger in a combi, and that's the Plate-to-Plate exchanger. Since this does cost around £100, I guess it's what you mean by 'Exchanger'. It is an 'exchanger', but not that exchanger. Not the main one, if you know what I mean.

Anyhoo, this PtoP exchanger would not - as far as I know - leak oot the condensate pipe should it go faulty. And they rarely leak anyways - they usually chust block up...

So, there you go - call yer fellow oot, by all means listen to what he has to say, but it don't really matter 'cos he's gonna have to fix it anyways....

You are both covered - that is very good news

 

Hi

If you have a look at the installation manual (Down loaded on the very first opening post) Ideal state an Engine Motor which could leak into the condensing outlet pipe and a Heat Exchanger, that would leak into the boiler casing.

I'll wait for a confirmed diagnostic and decide which way to go, though I have emailed Ideal about the guarantee but they did not reply

 

The 'motor'/engine/main exchanger is the biggie - the item that holds the water and gets blasted by the flames. When that leaks, it'll come out yer condensate pipe.

That costs ~£400 for chust the part.

The other is the P2P I explained before. If that leaks, it just leaks - it'll come out the bottom of yer boiler.

That's cheaper. But very, very unlikely to be the one concerned here...

HOWEVER, the main exchanger on any boiler should last - ooh, think of a 'reasonable' time - around 10? years at the very least.

If it fails before that (other than due to installer or user error, of course) then it ain't fit for purpose - is not of 'satisfactory quality'.

Warranty or no, I will tell you now that you can almost certainly get the manufacturer to at the very least pay for the part.

Personally, I would get them to pay for everything - parts and labour. You do that by using the correct lingo - ask Citizen's Advice for help. If they don;t respond positively, you get one of their approved service dudes to fix it, pay them - and then sue Ideal for the full amount. And you'll win.

But, I doubt it'll come to that. I reckon they'll say "Sorry - and we'll sort it."

 

I rest my case greyone. You win. I'm off to specsavers

 

Your welcome - Don't forget the antiglare

 

I totally agree the boiler and its components should last longer. (Ours 4 years old) Sadly with the SOGA and the new Consumers Rights Act your contract is with the seller not the manufacture. The manufacture has a legal obligation to up hold any warranty they offer (Subject to terms and conditions) but your Consumer Rights stay with the seller. The seller then has rights against the manufacture.

That doesn't mean to say a manufacture couldn't resolve a known problem out of goodwill, but my main concern at the moment is getting the problem diagnosed and conformation that the problem is within the boiler. I have a service maintenance contract but I have to pay an excess, so either way I will be contacting the manufacture or seller to try and recover my loses, if this problem is proved. Bringing in a third party repairer though, risks any claims against the seller under the SOGA, but needs must.

Not to happy with Ideal Heating at the moment, especially after all their hype showing a video of their construction processes and checks. The Heat Motor at least should be the last component to fail, not the first

 

Ah - good point about your contract being with the 'seller' and not the manufacturer. That does make things a bit more awkward, although the principle is the same.

How much is your excess?

You seem clued up with the SoG process, but if you are not 100% certain how to proceed (eg: whether to go 'service' contract or original installer) then have a chat with Cit's Advice.

 

ive fitted loads of logics and have recently been told by somebody from ideal that approx 1 in 8 hex's are faulty and changed........ makes you worry when you have fitted so many for your customers.

 

Interesting, Itchy. Do they know what the root cause of the failures is?

And are Ideal good about sorting it even after the normal warranty has run oot?

Cheers.

 

Confirmed today that the "Heat Exchanger" is leaking. With the Parts and labour I think its just short of the cost of a new Ideal Logic 35 boiler !

Given the cost to replace the Heat Exchanger, I personally think that Ideal should offer a 7 year guarantee on the replacement part, to restore faith in their products.

 

Should such a major part last at least 7 years? Yep.
If it fails before that time, can it be considered "of unsatisfactory quality"? Yep.

Will Ideal end up paying for this? Yep - if you oblige them to.

 

Actually Ideal didn't end up paying for anything but probably made money on their replacement Heat Exchanger !

I contacted Ideal and they didn't even have the courtesy to reply. My Ideal Boiler is not a "plus" and has two years warranty. British Gas diagnosed the problem and replaced the Heat Exchanger and a very nice job was carried out by their engineer. I have a service maintenance contract with them and now just need to pay my call out excesses.

Moral of the story .... If your buying a new build and the builder has yet to fit the boiler, make sure its not a Ideal boiler and see if you can upgrade it for a few more quid, to a more reliable brand.

Ideal customer services are nothing but useless .. but at least we've had excellent service from British Gas and because of them we now have a "happy boiler"

 

Pleased it worked out. I presume the cost to you was minimal?

2 year warranty? Pah!

If you hadn't had a service contract, then you could have made them pay for the repair - no question.

 

Ps. Its well known in the industry about these problem heat exchangers

 

I couldn't have .. My contract was not with Ideal, your contract is with the seller / trader and SOGA or the new Consumers Rights Act does not cover a house purchase or the equipment within it..

The cost isn't minimal. You've got you've call out excess but then you have your monthly payments for your breakdown cover. You pay your money and takes your chances but if the product was more reliable !

At least its all done, so onwards and upwards, as long as this exchanger lasts. I did ask Ideal if they would guarantee their replacement part for seven years, as a goodwill gesture but again no reply.

 

I cannot agree with this - even if by some weird quirk it's true.

That boiler - it's not a 'house' - is not of satisfactory quality.

Whether you'd need to tackle the installer or the manufacturer, I'm not sure - Citizen's Advice would soon confirm - but I know darned well that you could oblige one or t'other to pay for this.

Anyhoo - pleased it's sorted.

 

Thanks for that.

Again within the SOGA or the new Consumers rights Act your contract is with the seller of the boiler not the manufacture Ideal. Ideal would only have to uphold their guarantee offer, to which they are legally bound, subject to their terms and conditions.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

The SOGA / Consumers Rights Act does not cover house purchases or the items within them.