Installing new Toilet

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Robbo79, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. Robbo79

    Robbo79 Member

    Hi can i install a new toilet by running soil pipe straight through the wall to outside turn down with a bend into the existing manhole? Or does this need a pipe going up wall to a vent, and if so why does it need a vent? Whats wrong with pipe going straight into mainhole cover?
     
  2. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    The pipework needs to be vented: this is to allow the system to admit air thus allowing the waste to flow away, if there is no vent then a vacuum can form behind the waste and the pipes will block.
     
  3. Robbo79

    Robbo79 Member

    thanks captain, what sort of vent do you recommend? Just continue the soil pipe up and put a cowl on top?
     
  4. J4M35

    J4M35 Member

    its called a soil stack.
    have a look at other peoples houses.
    you will find a vertical pipe running up the wall with a vent at the top. the bath, sink and toilet then run in to this.
    as for the toilet the idea is the water from the tank pushes your crp down and up the p trap, it then falls in to the waste pipe and because theres no air behind it its sucks the heavy stuff out.
    so its basically a chain reaction.

    then as the waste hits the soil stack it has air behind it which allows it to drop down in to your man hole.

    If you dont know how it works your best off getting some one in. if you get it wrong
    u'll have bad performance and it'll get anoying when you have to flush about 3 times before u can walk out.

    check for diagrams on the internet they will give you a better idea.
     
  5. J4M35

    J4M35 Member

    forgot to say.
    check all the regulations, because the vent has to be the right height above the roofline. ( cant remember how much) & i know it sounds dum but dont use the orange pipe or conectors untill you get to under ground level.

    Things like this very easily picked up by survay wehen selling your house.
     
  6. Robbo79

    Robbo79 Member

    ok i get the idea smith, but please explain what about a ground level toilet that the waste just goes down into the floor, how is that vented?
     
  7. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    The soil pipe will still be vented - somewhere nearby.
     
  8. buildrite

    buildrite New Member

    The soil pipe will still be vented - somewhere nearby

    Still doesn't explain the air behind theory.

    Most groung floor toilets are not vented per se and still work well.
     
  9. sooyar

    sooyar New Member

    as for the toilet the idea is the water from the tank
    pushes your crp down and up the p trap, it then falls
    in to the waste pipe and because theres no air behind
    it its sucks the heavy stuff out.
    so its basically a chain reaction.

    then as the waste hits the soil stack it has air
    behind it which allows it to drop down in to your man
    hole.

    Sorry, that's basically a load of utter nonsense.
     
  10. buildrite

    buildrite New Member

    All toilets work the same way,they fill up virtually as they flush ie. (the trap is full)

    The vent pipe reduces back pressure in the drains to allow the water through which is the exact opposite of your theory.

    A "durgo" valve introduces air to reduce syphonage, or "trap pulling" but generally only on first floor.
     
  11. ProDave

    ProDave New Member

    I thought this was a plumbers forum, but I can't believe what I am reading (and I'm a sparky)

    NOBODY has pointed out that you can't just " turn down with a bend into the existing manhole" the pipe has to enter the inspection chamber properly, with a properly formed radiused joint. If it's an old brick chamber, that's a lot of work to add an extra pipe into it. If it's a modern plastic chamber, then it MAY have a spare entry that can be used, otherwise it's a big job to dig out the whole chamber and replace with one with more entries.

    As for no vent = blocked pipes, what a load of tosh.

    IF the toilet pipe has no vent, it WILL NOT BLOCK. but what WILL happen is the water etc flowing down the pipe will create a vacuum following it, so with no vent, it will suck some of the water out of the toilet trap. If you are unlucky it will suck enough of the water out of the trap to allow the drain smells to enter the house via the toilet.

    So either vent the new stack, or fit an air admittance valve.
     
  12. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    Quite right "ProDave" and a much better explanation than mine. :)
     
  13. Robbo79

    Robbo79 Member

    thanks guys for the info, one last question.... is there a height the aav has to be installed eg so far above window etc, i guess this can be installed inside or outside just above the toilet bend?
     
  14. sooyar

    sooyar New Member

    It has to be inside, and above the highest spillover level, e.g. washbasin.
     
  15. J4M35

    J4M35 Member

    as for the toilet the idea is the water from the
    tank
    pushes your crp down and up the p trap, it then
    falls
    in to the waste pipe and because theres no air
    behind
    it its sucks the heavy stuff out.
    so its basically a chain reaction.

    then as the waste hits the soil stack it has air
    behind it which allows it to drop down in to your
    man
    hole.

    Sorry, that's basically a load of utter nonsense.

    There is a chain attached to the handle on the side of the tank. When you push on the handle, it pulls the chain, which is connected to the flush valve. The chain lifts the flush valve, which then floats out of the way, revealing a 2- to 3-inch (5.08- to 7.62-cm) diameter drain hole. Uncovering this hole allows the water to enter the bowl. In most toilets, the bowl has been molded so that the water enters the rim, and some of it drains out through holes in the rim. A good portion of the water flows down to a larger hole at the bottom of the bowl. This hole is known as the siphon jet. It releases most of the water directly into the siphon tube. Because all of the water in the bowl enters the tank in about three seconds, it is enough to fill and activate the siphon effect, and all of the water and waste in the bowl is sucked out.


    EDUCATE YOUR SELF MATE.

    do a search if you want more detaild info.
     
  16. sooyar

    sooyar New Member

    as for the toilet the idea is the water from the
    tank
    pushes your crp down and up the p trap, it then
    falls
    in to the waste pipe and because theres no air
    behind
    it its sucks the heavy stuff out.
    so its basically a chain reaction.

    then as the waste hits the soil stack it has air
    behind it which allows it to drop down in to
    your man hole.


    Sorry, that's basically a load of utter nonsense.

    So, after going round the Ptrap the cr*p gets sucked down the waste pipe because it's got no air behind it then? There's air pressure in the waste pipe at 14.7 pounds per square inch softlad, if there was no air pressure behind the cr*p it would come back around the Ptrap like a two bob rocket and pebbledash your ar$e before you could pull your kex up.
     
  17. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    "and pebbledash your ar$e before you could pull your kex up".

    :^O
     
  18. Dick Puller

    Dick Puller New Member

    LOL!!! 'sooyar' you're a top man, my kind of guy. Good laugh as always and never wrong.

    'Prodave' & others, Wipe your mouth chaps, there's still a tiny bit of b.llsh.. around your lips!!!

    It always amazes me how many know-it-alls are on this forum, who know nothing!!
     
  19. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    I've been pondering the in's and out's of how Poo gets outta the bog all day.

    Amazing what ** goes through your mind while you are busy working.

    I won't ever look at pebbledash in quite the same way again though ;)
     
  20. sooyar

    sooyar New Member

    LOL!!! 'sooyar' you're a top man, my kind of guy.
    Good laugh as always and never wrong.

    Thanks Dick, I like your style too(can we meet);-)

    I don't know about never wrong though, it's more a question of not saying anything unless I'm pretty sure I'm right. Still, I'm doing ok for a CCC, what do you reckon. :)
     

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