Invoice clause

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by spen123, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. spen123

    spen123 Screwfix Select

    I'm usually lucky and most customers pay on time or before hand however one client is reluctant to pay because he thinks the builder told him we could do it cheaper. This didn't happened and we told him the agreement of electrical works is between us and him the client and nothing to do with the builder. There's still other invoices to go in and a large amount still left in the job before before we go over our quote. He saying he won't pay because there's a lot to do and he doesn't want us to walk. Makes no sense. The invoice is now 6 days over due but as he paid other invoices fine I didn't put a clause in claimed ownership of goods until full payment is recieved. Where do I stand in regards to issuing the same invoice but including the clause?
     
  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    I would always covered my butt by adding a clause in claimed ownership of goods until full payment is recieved, but then again I'm old school:rolleyes:, but I've seen clients pay faultlessly numerous bills for a while,then suddenly stop & you get caught out, & no end of grief.:(
    There are others on here who can offer better advice than me.
     
  3. spen123

    spen123 Screwfix Select

    That's the thing you stupidly begin to thing there okay people then bang your left in this ****.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  4. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    I don't think you can re-issue an invoice with different terms. In any case, the terms are meant to be agreed prior to any invoice being issued. For example, the terms should be on your quote, which are then moved to your invoice when you are ready to invoice.

    6 days is not to bad, unless you have reason to believe it will be withheld. 14-28 day terms are usual for most these days, and longer not unusual when imposed by a regular client.
     
  5. stateit

    stateit Screwfix Select

    " Ownership of materials" is largely meaningless in circumstances like this.

    You're not legally allowed to go into someone else's property and reclaim your property without their permission.

    Wholesalers have a similar clause: but if you didn't pay your wholesaler's bills what would they do? Go into a house you've already first-fixed the cable in and rip it out?

    "Ownership of materials " generally refers to unfixed materials delivered to or placed on site.

    [Either way, this customer, and the builder, sound a right PITA]
     
  6. Spen, I don't believe you can change the terms of your contract at this later date. And, even if you could, it would be poor form.

    Are you sub-contracted by this builder to do the leccy work, or did the customer contract you separately?

    Either way, this needs a nice sit-down with the customer. You explain that the builder is independent and has nothing to do with you (if that's the case). Therefore anything the builder has said to the customer is irrelevant. (Give him an example if necessary to demonstrate your point: "See that builder's blockwork? Should have cost half that. And the blocks should have been fitted upside down...")

    When you say he's paid other invoices fine, do you mean for your leccy work? So you've done some work, and he's paid? You've done more work, and he's also paid that? And he was due to pay you a further instalment at this stage - but is not doing so because the builder stuck his size 12's in?!

    Be calm, pleasant, thoughtful and understanding. But make it clear that you were employed to do this job on the basis of regular staged payments as agreed. Nothing has changed this. Certainly not the opinion of a 3rd party of who's business it is not.

    Explain you wish to carry on with this job and will always guarantee a high standard of work and professionalism. But to do this you need regular payments as agreed to cover your costs. Make it clear - if he stops paying you, it is HE who is breaking the agreed contract and you are fully entitled to walk away and could sue him for all the remaining costs as he has broken the contract, not you. Clearly not something you wish to do at all - but you are emphasising what is 'right' in this situation.

    Once he sees sense, put the situation in writing if necessary so if he does renege on the deal (like try not to pay the last instalment) then you can show that he's tried this on before.
     
    FatHands likes this.
  7. FatHands

    FatHands Well-Known Member

    (More) good advice from rumpole of the bailey ak DA ;):D
     
    KIAB likes this.
  8. Hang on - but Rumpole is a grumpy and curmudgeonly...

    Oh, I see... :oops:
     
    FatHands likes this.
  9. FatHands

    FatHands Well-Known Member

    Ha ha, no I didn't mean it like that sir, honest! Just that rumpole was legendary ;)
     
  10. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    Take this as a learning curve. Always have your terms stated and agreed, (as in signed) before starting a job, no matter how well you know or get on with the customer. If ever you need to go to a small claims, (or greater) court, having the documentation will help you no end! It doesn't mean you will get your money, but it does weigh in your favour that you will win the action.

    Once you have your terms in mind, they should be on all your quotes, and then your invoices! Mix and match a little depending on customer, but in general, they should be the same.

    If you are at a point were you think you will see no more money, but have enough to cover you......consider walking. No point putting in hours to a lost cause.
     
  11. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    He's refusing to pay because he doesn't want you to walk ?? What a strange way of encouraging you to stay. Honestly sounds like he's not going to pay. As Rumpole has pointed out, sit down and talk it through with the chap. If he still doesn't pay, here's what to do.......... If you've not started the second fix, carry on as normal, but next time your there, cut all the wires back as far as you can in the back boxes before walking. Cut all the wires in the loft too (and remove) Tell all electricians/ builders/ plumbers/ chippies in the area the chap doesn't pay for work done. No one will want to work for this despicable chap and he's up **** creek without a paddle. ;););)
     
    KIAB and Jord86 like this.
  12. Ooh, that's a bit nasty... :)

    The customer might well just be a nervous type and has been flumoxed by what the builder said.

    I hope Spen can judge what the actual truth is here, and make his decision based on this. But a good, friendly, reasonable chat is needed. Every trades peeps should be prepared for this - how to talk and negotiate in friendly ways.

    But he should certainly record the agreement with the guy, and get him to counter-sign it. If it goes wrong - if the guy tries to withhold future payment - then Spen will have evidence of his earlier suspicions and his case will be much stronger from it.
     
  13. spen123

    spen123 Screwfix Select

    Thanks for all your replies. Hopefully going there tonight or tomorrow with the builder and try to resolve what ever issue it is he has. It's a decent sized job and we second fixed upstairs as they are living on site. I don't want to walk and tbh I don't plan on as long as I get paid and agreement can be signed by all parties.
     
    KIAB and Deleted member 33931 like this.
  14. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Tell him you will send DA around if he doesn't pay! lol
     
  15. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Might be DA, but we see far too many "Cowboy Builder " type programs on telly that we all get a bad name. Strange how we never see "Cowboy Customer" programs ehh. (anyway, it was slightly tongue in cheek) ;);)
     
    KIAB, Jord86 and Deleted member 33931 like this.
  16. Tell 'em I'll give them a great big kiss if they pay up.

    And two if they don't...
     
  17. (And no tic-tacs used in either case...)
     
  18. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I have always, always said that there should be a program aired about cowboy customers, bit hard to implement it though.....
     
  19. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Just watched that "Can't Pay We'll Take It Away" program. Perhaps they could do a special about customers who wouldn't pay and the tradesmen get their revenge (legally) ;);)
     
    KIAB likes this.
  20. philthespark

    philthespark Active Member

    I worked on a building site once and the site manager was a proper ***,he wanted everything done cheap or for nothing,he had an attitude of "you work for me so you can help me out" anyway he'd bought a house on the site we were building and kept sending different trades over to do different jobs,the trouble was he wasn't keen on paying anyone.One day he had one of the sparks putting lights up,fitting outdoor kit,you name it he had it,only trouble was he didn't want to pay for it all.Now this spark was on price work,so the day he was doing work for the agent he wasn't actually earning money from the firm.well he did the job and the guy wouldn't pay so this is what happened.The spark went back and the consumer unit was in the garage,a trunking ran up the wall taking the cables from the board to the ceiling.He removed the fuse from the cut out,removed the trunking lid and cut all the cables,poking the loose ends back up into the ceiling.The agent came home after a night at the pub to discover no power,the following morning he asked one of the sparks on site to check it out,they all refused!
    Eventually he got it sorted,but it cost him a lot of money and taught him a lesson.
    The trouble these days is everyone knows the law,you cannot take fitted goods back for 2 main reasons,1) you cannot break into someones house to retrieve the goods and 2) if you remove goods you have fitted you must put the property back to the state it was in before you started.So lets say you fit a simple socket,surface mount in trunking and you charge say £60,now to fit it you've drilled holes in the wall which has damaged the wallpaper by the fact that it now has holes in it where the fixing screws are.Suppose the guy won't pay,ok you are going to pull the kit back out,fine,but you have to make good the wallpaper and the hole in the ceiling.Now assuming you can get hold of the same paper,it may have faded or aged,so the new piece won't match.So you are going to have to redecorate the full room,this obviously is going to cost a lot more than the price of the original job,so what do you do? Obvious,you cut your losses and walk away vowing never to work for that client again.Trouble is,he's got his socket and you are out of pocket.
    A lot of people will do things like this,or make bogus allegations of damage,I worked on one job and the guy wanted £400 for a hall stairs and landing carpet that I had allegedly burned with a drill bit.The company said I'd have to pay out of my own pocket,fortunately for me I had brand new dustsheets that day and the guy had put his own sheets down first.As there were no burn holes in my sheets it proved I hadn't done it.
    In the end I found out that the damage( tiny mark) had been caused by a previous contractor,he'd not only claimed off them but also off his own insurance and had actually already made £800 pounds with no intention of replacing the carpet!
     

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