Local building authority

Yep, they stand there watching you, and take notes.

 

No they don't... (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

Never heard of being allowed to test the installation yourself, and write out cert when going down BC/LBA route.
Obviously you can test your installation and write down values etc, and then compare with the BC appointed spark/company results.

 

They expect an installation cert from an electrician who's on the books for being able to sign off such work.

You should have had an inspector in to inspect all stages of the work, and then they'd do the final testing for sign-off.

 

When I did my extension electrics etc, all it was was inspect 1st fix, and then later on when I finished the chap came again and inspected 2nd fix and tested stuff and then wrote out the cert..I cant remember how much it cost, but I was very impressed with the chap/company who inspected my work, he let me have a go of the mft which I must admit is a luxury.

 

When testing with my Robin separates I run about like a blue arsed fly - but with the mft's a lot of the time you can sit and flick switches and stuff at DB position. Still love me Robins tho.

 

What you have to remember though JP is it isn't just about pushing the button. You have to understand what you are testing and why, then intrpret the results correctly hence the need for proper training and experienc.

Kind regards

 

Cheers Bazz

 

The LBA will accept completion certificates only from members of a self certificating group such as NICEIC, NAPIT ELEXA etc or an electrician who holds the City & Guilds Inspection and Testing certificate 2391 I think the number is. The latter must inform the LBA and show certification. Strangely they will accept without question, certificates from the 'Guild of partly qualified 'electricians'' ie the holders of Part P who are not electricians, such as plumbers, kitchen fitters et al, but that is another serious gripe I have with the system.

 

Are you sure of that? Most of those fall into what is denoted as "Defined Scope". In that they are allowed to carry out certain electrical tasks such as : electrical work in a bathroom, as part of their main occupation.
But they are not permitted to add new circuits, consumer units, rewires, etc.

 

Yore using calibrated test kit, interpreting the test results and filling out the EIC as in the back of 7671?

 

Another instance of how this industry is in a *****n shambles. . .quite clearly we do not kill enough people to have it regulated as the gas!!

 

or an electrician who holds the City & Guilds Inspection and Testing Certificate 2391

No they wont. . .

Ill have a link to that please, I am in error or after 15 yrs out in the field this has 'slipped' by without me seeing it

 

Yes I have wired up a wet room using the LABC to issue the completion certificate for my mother. The inspector never tested what I had done, he trusted what I wrote on the installation certificate, however getting them to accept my signature was not easy, he arrive on site as my son and I took over the job after the builder ran off into the Welsh hills.

My son was at the time a sole trader, he had insurance as a result, and we wanted him to sign the paper work, he had his C&G 2391 and at that time it was the C&G 2381 old 16th Edition. However the building inspector was not having it, he wanted us to pay for a third party inspector to do the inspecting and testing, in desperation my son said what if my dad signs it he has a degree, I don't think you will find anyone more qualified to test it. At which point he folded and said I could inspect and test, all the meters where there for him to see so he know we could do it, and I had commented I was not likely to endanger my mothers life.

He did not ask if I had a 2391, I did, but he did not ask, and to be frank the degree in electrical and electronic engineering did not really show me how to inspect and test, it is clearly not down to having a C&G 2391 he did not accept that, it was more down to if he thinks he can trust you. You are signing to say you have the skill required. However not sure about if that really matters? The Emma Shaw case comes to mind, in that case a electricians mate had taken a test set around the installation and written down the results, easy enough you plug it in, you press the button, you write down what the meter says. However the results were not as expected, so instead of just saying to boss there is a problem, he talked to guys in mess hut and fudged up so reasonable figures. However the court did not find him guilty, but his boss, as his boss knew he did not have the qualifications to do the work, so the Foreman got fined.

The LABC inspector is in the same position as the Foreman, if he lets you inspect and test without making sure you have the skill then he will get the £1000 fine, so if I was in his position I would also want to see the C&G 2391 certificate.

I expected the LABC inspector to arrive on site and select one item which was easy to test, and see if my results matched his, however this did not happen, as said we too over the job, so I used the three signature form, and only signed for bits I had done, so the design signature was left blank, I fully expected the installation certificate to be rejected, however about a week after submitting a completion certificate arrived in the post.

 

Thanks Bazza, yes that's how it should work but does it always? but I have no solid evidence to support my claim. When I taught 2391 in college and part 'P' came along, I read all the NICEIC notes and other documentation that indicated that the 2391 would be accepted by Building control, but by prior agreement.

 

Their are two certificates with the 2391 number, one is the C&G, the other is part of a NAPIT course (I think) but this one will not be accepted as it does not fulfil the requirements of part 'P'.

 

You can bet its the C+G one, as a recognised qualification holder

As for Napit, they are just a cash cow scheme like NICEIC

 

Its still shambolic, no one knows what is going on out in the real world do they, he signs this, they ***** that. . .he asks his QS. .oh for god sake!

 

The London fire may change attitudes? I have watched some of the tradesmen from hell programs, and seen how the LABC has said how bad the installation is, yet they have allowed it to proceed, my thoughts on watching have been, well you as the LABC are responsible, why didn't you stop it? Whole idea of any Clark of Works, is to watch and see if all is OK and stop it and insist it is corrected if not.

However it seems the LABC is just a tax, they do very little for their fee. In Ruthin a town near me, there was a road with a culvert under it, some houses were to be built up stream, and the planning officer wrote into the planning permission that the houses were to be built with a base high enough so should the culvert block then the river would flow over the road, before it flooded houses. It needed the inspector both for builder and council to actually check heights, but it was not done, whole estate built about a meter too low, the council tried to blame the builder, the builder blamed the council saying he paid good money so the building inspector would pick up on such faults, in the end there was an agreement as to who paid for both water damage and alterations to culvert, but it seems be it electric or any other thing which should be checked by the LABC they are rather poor checking all is OK.

So in real terms wiring a house one does really need to know how to do it correctly, the inspector is more worried about your knowledge than inspecting and testing during and after the install, once he knows you have a C&G2391 he has a get out, he can say hand on heart that he knew the person had the skill, and any non compliance it due to the electrician, however this is not really true, when I took my C&G2391 I was taught how to inspect and test, not what is allowed under the various sections of the building regulations. So I could fit a bathroom extractor powered from light switch in a room without an opening window without realising it needed a means to run it without the lights being on, I am sure many times I have fitted sockets to close to the corners, and also sure at some time I have drilled beams too close to ends, and a load of other things, which electricians who regularly do house wiring know, but industrial electricians don't need to worry about.

Everyone today seems to know socket heights, but access by disabled does not end there. Even time served electricians can get things wrong. I was just a few days ago talking about a consumer unit in a cupboard under the stairs, I don't think it's allowed when there is a stair lift installed, as it is in essence a lift shaft, however I could not find a definitive answer, all is good until something goes wrong, then questions start to be asked, I wonder how many people knew about the 18 meter rule for cladding types before the London fire? We all know now, but that's a bit late.