My first time with a Victorian house... and it's damp...

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by BiancoTheGiraffe, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    Hi folks,

    I've done a lot of renovation work in my time, but I'm now doing my first full renovation of a much older house than I've worked on before (1900s Victorian terrace in Stoke-on-Trent)

    I need to treat a damp section of a lower wall in the corner of the front room. I've stripped the plaster back to the brickwork in that area but it appears the moisture is coming in through the brickwork due to the ground being built up outside, above floor level.

    I'm a bit unsure of how to proceed from here. Obviously if I just replaster as usual, the damp will come through again, and installing a damp proof course is no good due to the ground outside coming about a foot up the wall (can't be dug out, it's the pavement!)

    Also, having removed a few of the floor boards, the ground underneath is absolutely soaked. Is this something that needs to be remedied, or is it normal for a 100+ year old house? (unfortunately all my experience is with properties from the 60s onwards)

    Anyone got any suggestions for someone who now feels like a bit of a novice?!

    Cheers!

    PS:

    I've uploaded a photo. Damp is in right hand corner by the gas meter. Pavement outside is about 10-12 inches above the level of the floor
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Is this a 9" solid brick wall with no cavity?

    Anyhoo, I doubt that tanking will stop that damp, so really I think you need to cut a slice into that pavement around 6" from the house wall and dig that trench out to expose the wall to below internal floor level.

    Then you can look at DPCs and tanking and stuff - but I wouldn't personally be happy as it is.

    As for the ground being sopping wet - what do you mean? Is this the soil level under the floorboards? If so, how far below - how much gap is there under your floor, is it very well ventilated and are there any current signs of rot?

    It is not unusual for the ground under the floor to be damp, 'cos that's what ground is like. As long as there's a good WELL VENTILATED void, it is usually ok.
     
  3. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Need air vents front & back under floor to allow good ventilation to flow through.

    Councils aren't too happy having peeps taking slices out of their pavements DA, plus you need to watch out for gas pipe.:)

    Got a photo of outside view of the front.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  4. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    As Kiab says you need some air bricks to vent the floor.

    A number of potential causes to the damp

    If there was a cupboard over the gas meter that could have been causing condensation on the metal pipes of the gas meter.

    Piling up of debris under the floor joists, there needs to be around 150mm of gap underneath and the ground should be reasonably dry - not dusty and not wet to the touch.

    Is the hole drilled for the aerial cable to the outside sealed properly ? Rain water will happily run down the wall and follow the cable

    And the usual suspect is a leaking downpipe/ gutter

    BTW I would get the gas supply checked - most inbound services should be changed from metal to a plastic equivalent. Shouldn't be a cost to yourself to have this changed
     
  5. Joe95

    Joe95 Screwfix Select

    To add to that, if the cable comes down the wall, then there should be a drip loop. It's where the cable takes a 'U' shape just before entering the wall. No matter how much sealant is applied water running down a cable will find a way into the brickwork unless it is forced to fall before.
    IMG_7824.JPG
    It might look unsightly, but had a very important purpose.

    A 'roman nose cover' is also a good idea, although not required.
     
  6. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly Member

    Hi, had the same sort of issue when council put a pavement along my pine end wall, went through all manner of advice --damp course tanking etc but one old guy gave me a solution that has worked for me, along the pavement where it joins the house I had to install iron vents that were used many years ago in these sort of houses, a suitable stone was removed and then the vent installed and cemented in place, I needed 4 in total and cost around £60 each, inside the house before render and plaster was applied a air brick block about 9 inch square was installed along the wall again 4 were used these were around £20 each the plaster was brought around the internal vent then a white plastic vent put on top to make it look better than just the brick you could also use an aluminium one if preferred, it took a few weeks to dry right out but is now ok, it seems these houses do not like cement finishes both sides of the wall they need to let moisture out
     
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

  8. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    Cheers for the replies chaps.

    The wall is 9" I think without cavity.

    Digging outside is definitely not an option unfortunately!

    The ground under the floor is built up more in that corner of the room, presumably because of the slope of the land itself. To touch, it's as if someone has just tipped out a bag of fresh compost and watered it ready for the tomatoes!

    I was wondering about air vents, but if it was just off the ground outside, it would be about a foot up the wall inside. Venting the cavity under the floor would help I'm sure, but I'm not sure how to go about it...

    I also wondered about tanking, but not sure how feasible it would be due to the walls needing to breathe.
     
  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Got a photo of outside view of the front, can understand your problem easier, might have a better solution.
     
  10. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    I would dig out the ground in that corner and remove it.

    You can get what are called periscope vents. These can go up as high on the wall outside as you like.

    upload_2017-2-20_13-9-48.png
     
    KIAB likes this.
  11. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    I've got someone going round to take some pictures as I'm not there today. I'll post them when they arrive.

    I've heard of the periscope vents, sound like a good solution.

    What are they like to fit?
     
  12. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  13. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly Member

    Hi Just picked up thread again just to let you know my outside cast vents are about 9inches higher than my inside vents along my pine end as my walls are stone and black mortar and are just over 18 inches thick, the periscope vents do work but usually are most suitable for venting underfloor with brick outside as stone build is not so uniform you might have to take out rather a large hole to get it to fit, we also live on a hill but my pine end is on one level and the front runs down steeply we just run the outside cast vents along pavement edge outside and just followed the floor level inside with the brick type vents they do not match up but it allows the wall to breathe and we no longer have any issues with damp, we did try mortar plaster finish first but it still was getting damp and black out of the mortar kept coming through, it was then we fitted the vents outside and inside into the walls, the walls were then cement rendered and plaster finished, the outside again cement finished and spared.
    Inside has been papered and painted and all is well no more black mould showing through or damp
     
  14. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    Finally got a picture to post.

    Problem area is behind the grey downpipe.

    Floor is just below the level of the door step.

    received_10158208117840291.jpeg
     
  15. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Where that drainpipe is your damp patch other side of wall!

    Drainpipe has seperated allowing wall to get soaked, THAT is the cause of your damp problem.:eek:

    I would fit air bricks in end wall through black gate, easier as joists are running that way, than front of house & joist tight against front wall.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  16. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Yep, just as I was typing and is that a ginnel (alley) down the side of the house as well ?
    upload_2017-2-20_23-9-38.png
     
  17. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    I know what a ginnel is, same as a twitten.:)
     
  18. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    Yeah, the black gate leads to the enclosed alley between the two houses (upstairs of both houses above it)

    I did wonder about the downpipe, but have never known it to leak.

    Thankfully the joist along the front wall is set back a few inches, would hate to think what would have happened had it been in contact with the soaking brickwork...

    With regards air bricks, having them into the alley would make sense. Wondering whether to install a periscope to vent the void under the floor as well as something to let the wall breathe...

    What do you guys think about refinishing? Tank it, render and plaster to keep it sealed inside, or find someone to do it with lime the old fashioned way?
     
  19. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    If you look at the picture the staining is your clue - the downpipe and the foot need sorting. If you look at the moss outside you door and your neighbours - there is none along your wall until you come to the joint in the pavement - rainwater has been washing it away.

    Also if you look at the picture. You ca see where someone has removed the air vent and put a brick in - fairly recently

    upload_2017-2-21_0-6-30.png
     
    KIAB likes this.
  20. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly Member

    Spot on there re-install air brick sort out leaking drain pipe and run a small fillet of cement with proofer in along the edge of the tar pavement where it meets the bricks to stop any water seeping down behind the join, inside will be fine with new render but I would still put a brick vent below floor level to vent void
     

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