Of course,,, being an architect,, Sean will be familiar with building standards abroad. He's no doubt fully conversant with Spanish electrics,(tek yer life in yer hands whenever you turn a light on) Greek plumbing (don't you dare put toilet paper down the lav) and the standard required in Poland to call yourself a brickie/carpenter/plumber/plasterer/painter) No doubt he's also fully aware of how much these people charge for their labour (and no doubt he's aware of the type of CSCS card these people are allowed on site with.. D'you know, instead of applying for the cscs gold card, I should have saved my money and gone for the basic "general operative" card . From the CSCS website Why then do they only insist, that anyone takes a basic H&S test (which a bloody 6 yr old could pass) to get a blue card? Can Sean tell me how the CSCS people check the qualifications of "foreign" workers ?? (thing is , they actually don't/can't) and personally don't bloody care), just as long as they get the fee for the H&S test, and whatever they can screw for any other type of card (where they can check the qualifications of workers) Call it sour grapes if you want Sean, but this is the "real world" you keep harping on about.. You know the one,, Not the one that exists outside your designer front door, but the one that exists outside honest tradesmen's proper front door. (the one most of us bloody live in) I sincerely hope there's 10,000 Roma and Bulgar, architects heading this way in the new year. All willing to "work" (if you can seriously call that work) for half of what your company pays you (and if your self employed, I hope they undercut your prices by half) Only then when your work starts drying up, you might care to join us in the "REAL WORLD". Anyway Sean, to quote my favourite Xmas song from the 80's "Happy Christmas your a**e I pray God It's our last."
nonsense there's many many hundreds of thousands of tradesmen from overseas working here, carrying out high quality work that's fully compliant to the relevant UK standards the CSCS card requirements have nothing at all to do with the point - the quality of their works say it all that's why they are in such demand, in the real world
So pray tell, how on earth I can't get a job on site with a "gold" cscs card, when Piotr from Poland, can get a job as a joiner, with only the blue operative card ?? Nothing to do with demand Sean, more to do with what I (and he) is willing to work for. In fact let me re-phrase that,,,, It's more to do with what the employer is willing to pay.
it's plain and simple economics, supply and demand ask yourself why TomP opted to buy his stringed instrument from overseas, at a far cheaper price - he has nothing but praise for it's quality
Over to you Tomp,,, (Sean still hasn't realised that the guitars you buy, are copies of guitars that were never manufactured in the UK anyway) Sean, had Tomp bought an original Gibson or Fender guitar,,, they'd have been manufactured overseas anyway (I'll let you guess where) so his guitar buying, hasn't affected UK manufacturers in any way (apart from the rip off music shops, who add about 50% markup on trade prices)
As an architect, your bound to say that every project completed has been done to the highest standard (bearing in mind, plaster board and paint can cover a multitude of sins)
my point, that you have opted to misunderstand, is that he has been able to source a product (it could just have well been a service) from overseas at a price and quality that meets with his approval - he could well have opted to purchase any goods or services from anywhere, anywhere in the world - it's one of the benefits of the free trade system, he's made his purchase based on price/quality/availability/looks/sound etc - it meets with his approval so he is happy and it's that same free trade system which enables folks to employ whoever they wish to do so if so many of these folks you are so clearly against had actually been producing shoddy work perhaps then your phone would have been ringing constantly with offers of work
Over to you Tomp,,, ( I don't think Sean has realised yet that the guitars you buy are copies of instruments made abroad anyway). Sean, you might like to check out where Gibson and Fender guitars are made,, (so Tomp isn't relieving British manufacturers of anything,) nor harming British jobs (apart from those people who own music shops,,, where the average mark-up on instruments is around 50%) (rip off Britain yet again)
more nonsense - every project of a reasonable size is subjected to a schedule of independent inspection if folks produce shoddy work they aren't in employment for long
perhaps Piotr is able to produce enough quality joinery to earn the right to be called a joiner, from your anecdote it certainly appears he is able to earn his living from joinery - maybe that says something about the skill level of a British gold card holder or their earning expectations
Or,, just maybe, his prices are so cheap, employers use him, knowing his studwork is covered by plaster boards. Can you explain how the cscs card system is supposed to work? I thought (wrongly) that the card was supposed to show the qualifications a site operative had. As far as I know , the blue "site operative "card is only for site labourers and simply shows , they have passed the H&S test... So pray tell how they turn up on site with a bag full of tools and get the jobs, us joiners can't get. ?? (hint,, might be something to do with the price they're asking to be paid)
you've used this forum to rant about the merits of that scheme numerous times in the past - it's tangential so don't get the hump if I don't wander off down that dead ended track with you so if someone from overseas, with only enough qualifications to prove his worth as a labourer in this country, is actually able to earn his living doing the job of a joiner, doesn't that make you wonder what an overseas worker, qualified as a joiner, could achieve working here ? you can keep trying to claim that overseas workers produce shoddy work, but the numbers of them who have been in employment since their arrival somewhat indicates that they are rather welcomed by the employers and services buyers here and that the rates they ask for reflects the true market value of their trade or should we start castigating folks who buy cheap goods and services ?
that's right, change the subject when your loosing the debate, I DO live in the REAL world, I'm a timeserved tradesman and since 2007 its impossible to get work on sites, there are too few sites and too many tradesmen looking for work, so why import EE's, its as simple as that sean, they are also driving taxi's,collecting scrap,thieving,pick pocketing, anything to get money, we DO NOT need them, full stop.
Every where you work you will find somebody like seanski commonly called a sh-- stirrer. I don't know why you bother getting into the argument with him it's what he posts on here for don't bite it's what the ---- wants.
Tomp, Sean is one of those who probably use the cheapest labour possible to complete projects. Never mind that they'll fall down in a few years. He doesn't realise yet , the downfall of the British construction industry is all down to these foreign imports. He's probably one of these who complain about the unemployed too (without wondering what's causing it) Had he been alive during the Victorian era, he'd have probably been in charge of the workhouse, or sent his own kids up chimneys.
if we did what you are advocating the Country would grind to a halt perhaps now your initial contribution has achieved your usual goal you'd care to put that inflammatory post, which you mischievously deleted, back up ? http://www.migrationmatterstrust.co.uk/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...h-about-immigration-its-good-for-Britain.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/01/immigration-poll_n_3851299.html