New Shed Supply

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by PaulS, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    What a debate and my wife said don't bother no-one will reply!

    Coming back to the original post, I openly described my installation design and replies have been continuous, which is why this forum is here.
    I have learned a few new facts that have been educational and helpful and thanks for the input.

    Fire, you have been a true gentleman in taking the time to explain the finer details of electricity to yes a DIY'er!

    Bazza, you are obviously a well established member, but the only one to shed criticism on this thread, obviously you know your trade well and should do and so do the other members, but I do own a successful company, employ over 96 staff and know people and
    there is one fact that i have learned over a 30 year period,

    " The constant critic, the constant "KNOCKER" and the person who shouts the loudest and wants to be heard, is never the brightest, never always right and certainly never the best!"

    Yes, I said from the beginning I had concerns to using 4mm cable and I knew it was borderline, and this reflects my " Qualified Electrical Contractor" first view in conversation with him, but the rest was fine. from a "Qualified Electrician".

    So finally, what's interesting from this thread is the fact that my project was:

    Electrical Supply to an outbuilding over a 31m distance and....... after all these viewings, there is no one method that all the PRO's on this forum can agree on, so ill stick with the view of my local electrical contractor, which is just another take on the current regs.

    Thanks
     
  2. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    Sounds like the Wife is a bit of a critic too then.. :D:p

    We love to debate on the Screwfix forum. Makes for interesting conversation and provides information not only to the world but to other sparks alike. No matter how many years served in the trade and or qualification gained there is always something new to be learnt.

    I have a philosophy that once you think you know it all, that is when you fail because you psychologically close of your mind to learn more.

    No doubt there is one thing that is true throughout the forum and through all trades, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
     
  3. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    Cannot argue about the wife and agree with your comments, I'm now going to have a break and do some carpentry instead, again thanks to all.
     
    fire likes this.
  4. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    Enjoy your day, i am thinking of putting up one of my Antennas and having a scan round see who is on the HAM bands.
     
  5. leesparkykent

    leesparkykent Well-Known Member

    Bazza Knows his stuff and you would do well to listen to his advice. He has only corrected a lot of the stuff Fire has come out with as most of it is utter bol!ox. Just because its written in detail doesn't mean its correct.
     
    sparky Si-Fi, Joe95 and Bazza like this.
  6. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    often with knowledge comes arrogance with some people!
     
  7. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    And bullsh1t baffles brains.
     
    leesparkykent likes this.
  8. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    It's not written to instruct, it is written to be interpreted and make you think about the job. Probably why you call it bol!ox as you seem like you would rather not do much thinking lol.

    There is two kinds of sparkie, one that is glad to share knowledge and expertise and better the world and the other who holds it close to the chest keeping it secret because he feels he can retain some kind of monopoly with what he/she knows. Given the days of old before the world wide web this was true but now with "google it" this false monopoly held on secret knowledge is no more.

    The world has changed, you can either embrace it or reject it but when it begins to remove liberties then we have a problem and this is exactly why the BS7671 is not a legally enforceable regulation as to respect your liberty but Building Control unfortunately does remove your liberty. Building control and the scamboards are on borrowed time, they are one of my main targets to have abolished and one of the main reasons i entered politics.

    So yes you can call it bol!ox all you want, I don't see you sharing the calculations and formulas to work out voltage drop in a cable, I don't see you referencing the Amendment 3 articles to address a DIY'rs concern or even a prospective customer looking for a spark or even trying to figure out if the spark is trying to rip him/her off.

    When you decide to help your fellow human out then maybe come back and we can talk.

    Bazza although somewhat cantankerous at times actually shared many valid points. He failed to realise that in my previous posts back i had mentioned the adding in a second mini CU to feed the outbuilding and seen as that avenue had already been covered it was not what i was talking about in the post he had quoted. I had also advised that a DIY'er must not start splicing into tails as breaking the seals is not permitted, should i have also mentioned that with it comes a £1500 fine that even a sparkie can be hit with. Yes even a sparkie registered is not allowed to cut or remove the seals hence i advised correctly to call in the energy company to get an isolator fitted and they record it and fit new seals.
    It does seem also that he may have not also read the OP as he wanted to run T&E from the consumer unit to the SWA cable and connect it. No one had even mentioned how this cable was to be run, in wall part way or trunking etc.
    This does mean that if T&E was used for the first 11 metres depending on installation of this cable and its route it will need RCD regardless of the 20Metres of SWA covering the rest of the length exterior to the home. Furthermore omitting RCD protection requires a appropriate risk assessment which needs to be attached to the electrical safety report.
    But of course all that is bol!ox...

    Do you never bother doing the required risk assessment for a non-RCD protected circuit?
     
    PaulS likes this.
  9. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    Fire, you are correct, as I have mentioned twice in the threads that if I am running TWE across the attic there is a potential cause for injury if there is no RCD between SWA and House CU.
    This just seemed common sense to me, but i'm a DIY'er.

    Again I have learned a lot from this forum from yourself, Bazza and the other members and have been open to scrutiny, but if we are all Professionals in our own fields, then why can we not have a grown up conversation or debate without the silly comments and criticism and small minded talk.
     
    fire likes this.
  10. leesparkykent

    leesparkykent Well-Known Member

    Another post full of ramble......You seem to have little bits of knowledge about many different aspects but no in depth knowledge or even a good understanding. Most of your posts I read and end up rolling my eyes as just as I think your on point you make some ludicrous statement like its fact. You write paragraph after paragraph and seem to get the gist but lack the knowledge on most of the crucial stuff to actually execute what you've rambled on about.

    Yes you mentioned installing a RCBO board with an upfront RCD protecting the distribution circuit.......Bad info

    Some DNO's provide electricians that are registered with a CPS seals and just have to notify them what seal you've used like SSE for example.....Bad Info

    A risk assessment for the omission of RCD protection is for sockets not installation method and does not apply to a dwelling. You cant just omit RCD protection for a installation method that requires it because you've done a risk assessment...........Bad info

    The Risk assessment has to be attached to the certificate not a electrical safety report (what ever one of them is)......Bad info

    So yes bol!ox.
     
  11. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Flipping heck Fire what u doing m8..:)
     
  12. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    Well trying to enjoy my weekend with a few beers and help the OP out but seemingly getting flack for it, talk about friendly fire collateral damage lol.

    It's as if i have somehow written "This is fact" when i have not and i have somehow written an instruction manual of do it this way only instead of a normal easy going conversational set of posts on a forum.

    If you came to a electrical install for test and found a 4mm2 SWA cable wired to a 20Amp RCBO with a isolator that isolated not only the Live but the Neutral then off to a consumer unit in a shed 31 metres away, would you put a code on your test report?


    We all do the job differently, as i have said their is more than one way to skin a cat. I am not saying if i was doing the job i would use an RCBO but the conversion between the contributors and OP of this thread is talking about a 1 free spot with and RCBO in his consumer unit into 11 metres of T&E to a 4mm2 SWA and off to the consumer unit. ||We have already covered the wow 6+6+6+16+32 and not taken into consideration diversity. Clearly many critics have not read the whole thread.

    Give a man a fish he will feed his family for a night but teach him how to fish and he will feed his family for life.

    It is a case of reading what you want to read instead of reading the entire thread. If i write assuming 32Amp it means using 32Amp current rating, it does not mean you will use 32Amp for goodness sake. It is the figure in the calculation so if one felt that less of a current will be used as in taking into consideration diversity etc etc then fine adjust the formula and or contribute to the thread meaningfully and state that 32Amp is actually not needed and you would be better off with 20Amps anyway.

    It seems to me that many are ****** off that what they feel should be kept secret is shared freely on the internet. Their manhood has been compromised somehow because of the freely available sharing of information. We have been down this route 101 times and it always turns out with the same result, you can't have DIY'rs knowing the know-how, why would they hire a spark, selling out the trade and so on. Well that is a load of bol!ox Liberty is more important than ones false monopoly and yes the cloud computing proprietary software argument has also been covered on here too.

    All those who wish to remove ones liberty and freedom are no friend of mine lets put it that way, sure business is business but as i said before a person should choose you because they want to not because they need to.

    The damn draconian despot fascists are everywhere... lol

     
  13. leesparkykent

    leesparkykent Well-Known Member

    yet another post full of ramble..........You cant possibly be a practising electrician surely?
     
  14. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    Awww I am told Bubble Wrap can help with your problem...



     
  15. leesparkykent

    leesparkykent Well-Known Member

    I take that as a no then....I thought as much ;)
     
  16. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    You can take it any way you like, even up the bumb if you so prefer it.:D

    Not from me though, i am not that way inclined.:eek:
     
  17. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    Hi Bazza, the issue here is that the installation extends outside the zone protected by equipotential bonding, if the shed had a concrete re enforced floor, the earth could be bonded to that and their would be no need for the second RCD. Also if you use the main house earth, you may have circuits connected to it with a 5 second disconnection time. That means the Earth bar in the CCU will be above earth potential for up to 5 seconds. Now with installations outside the equipotential zone, ie in the garden, the disconnection time is 0.5 seconds or may be less. The only way to comply with the disconnection time would be to ensure that ALL circuits disconnected within the shortest required disconnection time on the site. Look in the Regs at 'Mixed disconnection times'.
     
  18. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    Fire, my apologies ref all the silly nonsense for just "helping" an OP (thought this is the aim of the forum).
    Cheers anyway.
     
  19. fire

    fire Well-Known Member

    I would not worry about it. We are all grown-ups we can deal with it, well at least most of us are all grown-ups at least...

    So did you get it sorted in the end?
     
  20. PaulS

    PaulS Member

    Yes, all passed on Tuesday.
     
    fire likes this.

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