No isolation valve on new toilet installation?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by craigo, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. craigo

    craigo Member

    Hi,

    I've just had a new bathroom installed, and have had a problem with the toilet.

    The cistern is supplied by a high pressure feed (unvented system).

    Most of the time - the inlet valve doesn't close, leaving the water draining down the overflow.

    However, the pressure causes the cistern to fill up quicker than the overflow can drain - so we've just had a minor (i hope) flood.

    Even with a bit of encouragement, the float valve refuses to stop the inlet of water, so I had to run to the shut off valve in the airing cupboard to stop the thing flooding again.

    On opening the same valve (supply to entire system), I notice the toilet has stopped filling.

    So, I've come to the conclusion that the water is possibly too high pressure for the toilet float valve to function properly. (Is that possible?)

    I thought - "Ah! I can fix this by turning down the isolation valve feeding the cistern....! This will also solve the problem with the overflow being slower than the filler if it happens again!"

    But there isn't one!

    Finally, onto the real question:

    Should there be one? and if so would my thought have been the correct fix?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    I would say.

    Yes and yes.
     
  3. craigo

    craigo Member

    Thought so....

    Is there enough room for one?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. craigo

    craigo Member

    I should have said the 2 pipes with valves already fitted are the hot and cold supplies, the plastic is for the toilet
     
  5. CraigMcK

    CraigMcK Screwfix Select

    You could probably get one fitted on the plastic pipe that runs over the main waste, its difficult to see how much space there is in there. Failing that you would need to blank that one off and fit another T further up and go back and down into the elbow at the back.

    However while a valve will reduce flow rate, it would not reduce pressure, but the reduced flow rate might fix the problem anyway. In fairness though the installer should have sorted that out for you anyway
     
  6. craigo

    craigo Member

    The installer has blamed the toilet filler valve (sorry, i'm not sure what to call it - the float thing inside the cistern). It came with the cistern (victoria plum).

    I'm inclined to believe him that it's not the best quality - half the other stuff we got from them wasn't great, or arrived damaged.

    He's said he'd replace it with a better one from screwfix, I don't think there will be a labour charge, just for the part.

    But I think I will get him to fit an isolation valve - I don't want to have to shut down the entire system if this problem happens again.

    The plastic pipe running over the main waste is about 3" long (between the 2 connections), hopefully that's enough for him. If not he'll have to find another way.

    I think this is what he needs?

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit-15esotp-emergency-shut-off-tap-15mm/13133


    Yes, that's what I mean, flow rate - not pressure. I think it would do the trick, and I'd rather the tank took a few seconds longer to fill than worry about it flooding the house again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  7. Your installer should have sorted this out. If your cold mains has such good pressure he could have fitted a restrictor in the filling valve. He should have checked that the overflow can cope with the in flow (otherwise what use is the overflow?). He definitely should have incorporated an isloation valve. I couldn't open your picture but this sounds like a typical second rate job. I suppose you've paid him?!
     
    Tommy B likes this.
  8. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Water bye laws require one, so does good practice!!!!
     
  9. craigo

    craigo Member

    Not sure what happened to the image, it's not working for me either now... it was OK earlier... Hmm.

    No, not paid them a penny yet, but this was all part of a big job to install a new unvented system, system boiler, replace microbore pipes, install 10 rads, and then gut and replace entire bathroom.

    Will pay up when I've had the invoice and I'm satisfied with all the work.

    Other than this issue, everything else has gone well, and I'm pleased 98% of their work... To their credit they rushed straight round when I called them about it.

    Some of the grout on tiles has gone orange, but they subcontracted that so not sure who to take that up with, but I'll be holding some payment back until that's sorted.

    Funnily enough, the other half bumped into them in the shop when I sent her out to get the required parts. They knew exactly what was needed already, and stuck the bits on their trade account and will sort it out when they come back to finish a couple of other things off.

    Luckily the ceiling it leaked through seems to have dried out ok with very little staining.

    Thanks for the confirmation about water by laws.
     
  10. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Ok then we'll stick you a valve in if you want one!!!!
     
  11. By the way, I haven't check the by-laws but according to The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999 only a water cistern, (not flushing cistern), urinal and outside tap require a servicing or isolating valve.
     
  12. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Anything that automatically fills!
     
  13. My mistake apologies, those regs (The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999)

    state in 16(2)

    Every inlet to a storage cistern, combined feed and expansion cistern, WC flushing cistern or urinal flushing cistern shall be fitted with a servicing value on the inlet pipe adjacent to the cistern.
     
    craigo likes this.
  14. craigo

    craigo Member

    I knew I'd come to the right place :D
     
  15. nigel willson

    nigel willson Screwfix Select

    Or valve even! Lol
     
  16. CraigMcK

    CraigMcK Screwfix Select

    Regarding the grout issue, if he sub contracted it, your port of call is the company you placed the order with. They are fully responsible for their subcontractors. Don't let them suggest you need to get in touch with the tiler, it's not your problem
     

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