Paul nuttall

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Deleted member 164349, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. I see 2 top officials have resigned from the party due to him and his claims.

    Interestingly, the party describes itself as liberal.

    At this point, I would like to make it clear, I detest UKIP and its leaders past and present.

    If they are liberal, I am most definitely not !
     
  2. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I saw an interview with Nutter the other day and it made my skin crawl. What an arrogant, deluded up himself piece of crud. Just yuk. Still he's a modern day politico so what would you expect?
    Arrogant? Check
    Liar? Check
    Narcissist? Check

    Straight to parliament with you!

    I share PaulB's concern for the future but this isn't based on Trump or Brexit or Putin and my concern is nothing new. Whichever politicos have sat in the seats of 'power' we've been on a steady global march toward a dystopic for decades. It's not politicos that have led this, they just enable it by signing things off. The entire game is rigged...in my humble opinion ;)

    It's always claimed that Trump represents some rise of the right amongst the US vote. This defies facts. Trump just got the republican vote. Give or take a few he got the same number of votes as the republicans got in the last two US elections. The reason Trump got in was that the left's vote collapsed. It's that simple and those are the facts of the numbers.
    Putting Hilary Clinton against him? Really? It's like someone wanted Trump to win so put up the most hideous and hated candidate they could find against him. People don't forget things like Clinton pressuring the democrats to vote for the Iraq war... Bernie Sanders may have actually stood a chance against Trump. He too plays the populist card. But, the democrat establishment wasn't having that were they.

    The 'alt' right in Europe is nothing new. It's been festering away since WW2! Heck it wasn't that long ago that it was big in Britain with the likes of the National Front and Oswald Mosely. The far right is a persisting phenomena that's been largely ignored. Now it's not being ignored. That doesn't mean it's anything new.

    Look what's happened with Corbyn in Britain. Along comes a fairly decent left winger with massive support from the rank and file labour party and what happens to him? He's castigated by everyone. The media lampoon him and his own party pretty much declared war on him! I'm no Corbyn fan, his politics are too centrist for me personally, not nearly radical enough but compared to New labour? He's a ruddy political saint! And he's perpetually crucified. Crucified by who?

    Putin is not a nice person is he but ever since Lavrov stepped in and stopped the US/Brit invasion of Syria, Russia has been targetted with perpetual vitriol and fear mongering. Literally, the day after Lavrov got Assad to give ground on the chemical weapons charges...Russia became the target. The facts are twisted and distorted to make Russia appear to be on some imperialist mission to take over the World. The story with the Ukraine and Crimea is far from the way the media and Western governments portray it. Ukraine is a hot bed for neo Nazis. Svoboda are now holding key power positions in Kiev. That whole area has been split since WW2. It's the same in Poland. Nazi sympathizers/supporters on one hand, Russia/soviet supporters on the other. The Ukraine just happens to have that split pretty much West/East. The Eastern Ukraine folk don't want to be run by the perceived Nazi sympathizing West, so they rebelled. Russia helped/helps them. The Crimeans had a referendum to leave the Ukraine and ask Russia to take them in. The referendum got a yes vote and that's what happened. Though of course, Putin would have wrung his hands in glee. But Putin isn't on an expansionist mission. In my opinion he's just laughing at the state of things in the West and being opportunistic. As for the US election, leaked emails and all that. What a crock of propaganda crud. What a hypocritical sack of bilious spew. The US has interfered in the political affairs of over 40 countries, it's caused coups, invaded anywhere it fancies and installed pro US puppet governments, it hacks Merkel's phone! Pots and kettles or what?

    Yes, I fear for the future. The reason I do is that we, the people are not presenting any resistance to this continual march toward dystopia. It's US that concerns me. Psychopathic power crazed nutters just do what they do. There's no surprise that they do this stuff. The surprise/worry is that we let them.
     
    chippie244 and PaulBlackpool like this.
  3. Yes, I fear for the future. The reason I do is that we, the people are not presenting any resistance to this continual march toward dystopia. It's US that concerns me. Psychopathic power crazed nutters just do what they do. There's no surprise that they do this stuff. The surprise/worry is that we let them.


    And you didn't vote for brexit. That is your right. But by not supporting remain you have silently voted for more USA control of our affairs. The very thing you suggest you don't want.

    Idealistic views you have maybe, but they won't happen overnight or possibly ever. So until then the lesser of 2 alternatives is surely better.

    I fear that you want your eutopia, but not many others do. Most others just want to carry on earning their debt.

    And I get labelled left wing on here :eek:
     
  4. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Did I say I didn't want more US control of our affairs? Don't remember that but yes, I don't :)
    You're using logical fallacy there though. You have set the premise that not voting remain is voting for more US control. That's a false premise. It's a political tool. I contend that No-one who voted leave was voting for more US control ;) (well maybe the odd looney, who can tell).

    You're right that my idealism isn't looking like bearing fruit anytime soon. It is after all, idealism. However I don't agree that staying in a failing, massively centralized political system was the best option. As I said pages ago, if this was being led toward some Star Trekesque, One people under the Sun direction then that may be a different thing. That's not the EU though. The EU was created by financiers and industrialists to serve themselves primarily. It was born out of a desire to remove obstructions to maximising profits. The rest is after that fact. The 70s Brit referendum was on the common market. Emphasis on the word, market.

    I agree, not many share my views. It's a cross that you bear when you sit in the south west region of the political compass :D
    From where I sit, your views seem pretty right wing authoritarian :D
     
  5. Wow

    I have been labelled right wing here. And been called a leftie and a liberal by others !

    Pretty fair for somebody who says they not are tied to any political persuasion I guess.

    So phil, if i am right wing ? ...................?
     
    P J Thompson likes this.
  6. Isn't that precisely the issue here - those who voted Leave did so with their own idealistic - and almost always delusional - thoughts of what 'Brexit' would be, and what it would bring.

    And desperate May was forced - I'm pretty sure against her revulsion - to go across t'pond in haste.

    You are surely not going to deny that May rushed over to see Trump precisely so that she could at the very least pretend the UK was on a roll with setting up new trade agreements? And that interview by Gove - "We'll be at the FRONT?!", dear lawd.

    So ye cannae have yer cake and eat it. Brexit could well mean being in the US's 'pocket' in many ways. It might not, of course - it might mean pretty much anything.

    So that's what Leavers voted for?
     
  7. Blimey - that's some view point.

    Lot's in there I would agree with - Trump, for example - but the wider political view point? About Putin, for example?!!

    Jeepers...
     
  8. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I'm just saying it how I see it re Putin. It happened as I described. Lavrov stepped in and stopped the invasion of Syria at the 11th hour and straight away, the western governments and the media turned their sights on Russia. Where they've remained ever since. The Ukraine situation is as I described too. An area that is divided, the Pro Russia, Eastern 'Ukrainians' who had been ok with Yanukovych (sp?) were straight away in opposition to Poroshenko (sp?) and his bunch of far right cohorts. The Crimea DID have that referendum. They did vote to ask Russia to let them in.
    Though in no way am I saying Putin is a good man, I am saying that Russia has become the target of rabid Western propaganda. The correct term for what happened with the Crimea for example is amalgamation not annexation. Those things are very different and it's no surprise that annexation is the term widely used.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  9. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    No I'm not labelling you as a right winger :D Apologies if you thought I was :) Just saying you seem to have views that are a bit further right and a bit more up the authoritarian scale than my own.
     
  10. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    Right wing my arris.

    You're so left wing if you were a bird you'd fly round in circles. :):)
     
  11. Actually, I think it means you are much further right than you think you are :rolleyes:
     
  12. Iron_Mike

    Iron_Mike Active Member

    Surprised he wasn't playing at Hillsborough.
     
  13. Glad to see he didn't win.

    I know it was a massive brexit vote area, so I was concerned that ukip would be popular.

    But his and his parties lies must have shone through.
     
    PaulBlackpool likes this.
  14. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    He wasn't that far off being 3rd, Conservative were only 76 votes behind.
    It seems that I'm not the only one who's doesn't like him.

    Not sure Labour was the right vote though.:rolleyes:
     

  15. Not unduly bothered whether labour or conservative won. Both have faults, and good ideas.

    But ukip is just a lie . Somehow they have a lot of support by people who believe what they say. That is why I was relieved ukip didn't win
     
  16. I almost wish that Labour hadn't won. That might at least have dealt the fatal blow to Corbyn.

    Yeah yeah yeah - he has 'principles'. But so did Thatcher...

    The sooner he goes, the sooner we might have an opposition.
     
    Phil the Paver likes this.
  17. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I agree with you there, I voted for him, but the problem is the alternatives are all political pygmies.
    No one seems to want an egalitarian society any more so what can a good socialist do?
     
    P J Thompson likes this.
  18. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Hmmmm just a couple of points DA.. Those who also voted Remain did so because of their own idealistic, (and almost always delusional ) thoughts, of what Remaining would be.

    May was never "forced " to go across the pond, in haste. She'd have gone whoever had been elected in the USA. Political decorum and all that.. Don't forget we're about to give notice to the EU of our intention to leave, therefore groundwork on future trade deals with the rest of the world has to start (yes, even if it goes against EU rules, which say we can't start trade negotiations with other countries until we've left) A rule designed purely to deter countries from leaving in the first place.

    Don't forget, it's not that long ago that the outgoing president told us we'd be at the "back of the queue" as far as trade negotiations with the USA go. (a downright lie if ever there was )
     
  19. Whatevs, JJ, whatevs...
     

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