Dear Forum Members, I have installed a new central heating boiler and hot water system (Worcestor GreenStar 24i with unvented cylinder) by an experienced Gas safe registered engineer 9 month ago (August 2014). Just few days after installation, there was a huge leak in one of the shower pipe and floor and walls got soaked. We only noticed when water was dropping from kitchen celling. I called installer. He came to house and disconnect to shower hose where he identified the leak and sealed that. He mentioned a joint was previously weak. Question is “is this not identifiable during installation?” The system started giving trouble recently again after 9 month. The boiler pressure was reducing to zero. I called the installer again and ready to pay whatever to resolve this. And after 20 calls and lots of text messages he called and suggest to increase to boiler pressure to 1 bar. System seems working ok just for couple of days and problem appears again. I suddenly noticed a slow leakage near motorised valve. I called him again and again with detailed message. I offered him to pay whatever it takes to resolve the problem. His business was open as usual but he didn’t reply my call/messages. I then called British gas engineer who checked and mentioned that the valve was very poor quality and rusted. They normally don’t installed this type of motorised valve. British gas engineer replaced the valve with good one but even after that the system was not pressurised. Engineer than shockingly found a cracked pine near a joint. The pipe was damaged during installation work and barely withstand the pressure and eventually failed. British gas engineer checked the whole system and suggest me to do some bits and pieces of work. I also have taken British gas homecare plan to cover any further breakdown. I now have a big question mark about Gas safe registered installer’s work. The whole installation costs around £4000. One of my mistake was not to take any written warranty for his work. Boiler and Cylinder has warranty. Installer verbally assured any further support which I didn’t receive even I offered him any payment. I was very disappointed when he didn’t return my phone call for more than 2 weeks. On one occasion, I called from a different phone and he answered assuming new business. As soon as he recognised my voice, he said “XXX is not here”. Is there anything I can do for this? Is there any organisation/body where I can complain about his faulty workmanship? I don’t want him to do the same thing for another person. Could anybody give any suggestion? Thanks a lot for your time.
From installer’s details and on-line, I can see two places where I can complain. 1. Gas Safe Register (http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help/make_a_complaint.aspx) 2. National Association for Professional Inspectors and Testers (http://www.napit.org.uk/consumerComplaints.asp) I’ve got installer’s Gas ID Number, Gas Safe Registration Number and NAPIT Reg. Number. Does any forum members have any further suggestion?
Muzib, LOTS of issues here . To try and work through some of them - if the initial leak happened in an existing shower installation that he had nothing to do with, then that clearly ain't his fault. Should have checked your WHOLE household plumbing before fitting this new boiler - ie, is it 'identifiable during installation'? No, not really, unless it was really obvious that some of your pipework and fittings were really dodgy... Was your previous system gravity-fed from a cold tank in the loft? If so, your new system will be working at a much greater pressure, and most plumbers will advise you there could be some new leaks that weren't there previously. Again, this is not really their 'fault'. Re your later issues, for the pressure to fall fairly quickly to zero needs a pretty obvious leak - not a drip. Yes the BG cove will ****-off as much of anyone else's work that he can, and it may be legit or it could be him trying to be a smart-a***. But, the way you dealt with it won't help your case; you should really have insisted the other guy came out, and allowed him that fair chance to sort it. I know you say he tried to ignore you, and that helps your case. But it does need doing properly - recording all the communications and dates, and having evidence that you contacted him. If it's clear he's being evasive, then you can get someone else to do the work and sue the bar steward for the cost. And you probably could still bill the guy for BG's work if you really tried. So, absolutely report him to the peeps suggested above. In future, do things by the book - recorded delivery letter stating 'you have one week to sort this or I will get bl;ah blah blah and sue you for the cost'. Then you can do it. Moneyclaim.gov followed by 'TheSheriff Office' to recoup the debt. Chust sit back and let it happen
Dear Devil’s Advocate Thanks a lot for very useful information. You are right, previous system was gravity-fed from a cold tank in the loft. With initial leakage - I was ok as it was in the old pipework and he came and fix the problem within next day. Second leakage problem started on 12 April 2015. Just a correction: pressure didn’t fall to zero within a moment, it took 4/5 days. I called him immediately. He called me back two days later after lots of call and suggest me to increase pressure. After a week the pressure seems reduce to zero again. I increased the pressure and it seems doesn’t hold. I tried to contact him again on 24 April and mentioned by phone and message that problem still exists. In the meantime I’ve noticed one dripping point and informed him via text/message. Up to 30 April, I didn’t receive any reply. All my phone call goes to voice message. I couldn't wait long without heating and hot water with my little child at home. I called British Gas on 30 April at evening and book an engineer. They have solved the problem on 1 May. Till today installer didn't contact me assuming he doesn't know the problem is being resolved. I’m sure he received all messages sent from my mobile. His business is open as usual. Thanks again for letting me know about the steps to handle this situation. He has won this time. I won’t take any legal steps. I’ll just report to Gas Safe Register and NAPIT. Regards Muzib
If it was my system, and before installing the new boiler and converting to pressurised, I would have asked for a system drain, then flush with flushing agent, and then of refill after installation of new boiler, addition of the required inhibitor to prevent corrosion and scaling in the pipes. It would be almost impossible to check the condition of all piping (and very costly) given a lot of it is located underfloors and is insulated - we as homeowners just have to accept there is a higher risk of leak when converting to pressurised. In addition there is a bladder, or accumulator in the bolier, which is pressurised with air - and this air balloon takes the expansion/contraction in water volume as the water temp changes and keeps the pressure steady. Very often this is not charged correctly - intial charge should be done with system at 0 bar and partially drained to allow the bladder to fully expand. It then gets compressed when system is pressurised. Good luck with your system.
As a Gas Safe installer I can see both sides to this issue, He should have warned you in writing that pressurising and older system carries inherent risks just like the sort you are experiencing and obtained a disclaimer. Personally I have not gone ahead with a few jobs of this nature because that clients did not believe the potential troubles that can arise from converting an older heating system. Gas Safe will not get involved as long as there is no gas related issues, which from your post there is not. As DA states the moment you get another company/insatller involved then the original installer has every right to refuse to deal with you as the bond of trust has been broken, provided he had every intention of rectifying any possible faults on the installation. I feel that having spent the amount of money that you have spent you deserve a better service than you have been getting, there have been errors on both sides, given your original post. Difficult one to rectify as I see it now, given that both of you have apparently crossed beyond what could be seen as a mutually agreeable settlement.
Hi Georgemac, Installer did drain, flush the whole pipework with flush agent. Also MagnaClean is attached to the system. The old pipework didn't give any more trouble after repairing the first leak. The second leak was in the new pipework and in the new motorised valve connected near the unvented cylinder. The cracked pipe was also found in the newly build pipework. Anyway, hope there is no more surprise.
Now that you have clarified that it was his work at fault and not the existing system, then that is a whole differnt kettle of fish. Yes he should be giuven the opportunity to rectify any errors within a reasonabe time, and if he failes to do so then you are within your rights to have it independently repaired and forward him the invoice for the correction of his defective work. As for recourse then I would suggest your local Trading Standards as a first port of call.
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