Porch Single Glazing Repair

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Alex_, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member

    I've purchased a house with a front porch which has walls mainly comprised of single glazed panels in a Georgian bar style.

    Water has started getting in through each of the small panes and is obviously starting to damage the internals of the frame. Whatever was sealing the glazing looks long gone (where it's still alright it only really looks like the paint is keeping it out).

    Moss growing around the glazing didn't help this and in places has left quite a large gap between wood and glazing. I've attached a photo showing what I mean.

    I've had a double glazing company quote for a porch infill, but we're not sure this is the direction we want to go in and I'm wondering if there's some DIY I can do to prolong the life of the existing glazing.

    I was wondering If I could:
    - clean / sand the wood
    - Use something like ronseal rot hardener?
    - there's one place where the wood has deteriorated where I could use wood epoxy to replace the damage
    - Use glazing putty around the edge of each pane, but without removing the glass (Does this work? I see a lot of guides about removing the glass and bedding it into putty, but not sure if I can just reseal the outside).
    - Re-paint

    I've not done anything like this before but thought it might be worth a shot before it gets to a state where I'm forced to shell out a few grand on PVC. Sound likely to keep the water out and prolong the life for a few more years, or doomed to fail?

    Thanks for any comments
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    Its condensation causing the decay. Which means many returns to stave off the worst effects as the years go by. Its just a lot of time consuming maintenance with traditional works, but it doesn't look too far gone at this stage. repairs can be effected, but not many can or will do this, these days.

    For something like this I would see how much repair can be done on the main frame sections. Then make up a double glazed unit to match and set that into the main frame. If its doable. Cheapest option is the dg pvc. But if you want to retain your heritage its costly.
     
  3. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member

    I'm 100% sure it's the rain that's getting in around the panes, there's nothing to stop it seeping in, I see it when it rains. The porch isn't really sealed well enough for there to be much condensation and there's not a source of heat/humidty. The main frame woodwork is currently fine, it's mainly the wood around the individual glazing panels thats being affected.

    It's not really a heritage thing, the porch was only built in the 80s, so in some respects it looks dated and could be replaced, but I'm not convinced a load of white PVC will look much better and the insulation is overkill for what we use it for. So rather rush into the decision this year I thought I'd kick it down the road if I could.

    In terms of the cost of doing the DIY, that surely depends on how I value my time. Double glazing quotes were in the order of £3500. Do you think what I suggested doing with glazing putty on the outside is viable?
     
  4. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    Any kind of diy repair work will help, along with a really thorough paint.
    usually i pick out the loose putty and use 2 part to make up the fill in getting a good join to the glass. Its easy to sand it to shape afterwards.
    use good quality oil based paints.

    its all you can do.
     
  5. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Go down your local glass supplier and cost out a DG unit in toughened glass to the size of the main panels and ask for internal georgian bar insert. Will be a hundred or 2 ea. Easy enough to make up a single frame to replace the rotten one. You can buy many pre-formed glazing sections from merchants. If you are up for some DIY you should be able to keep the main frames, make up some inserts, and be well under £1K, and may be only £500 depending on size. If you don't DIY, ask a local joiner for a quote. It won't be £3.5K.
     
    CGN likes this.
  6. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I don't know how anyone is making an assessment on that photo. Can you post a few more to get a more general picture? Wide shots as well as close ups.
     
  7. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    It's a "porch" - how much glazing can it have? I'm getting 800x700 toughened 24mm DGU <£45, but yes better photos/dims would help :D
     
  8. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member

    Sure, here are some general photos of the glazing, and the condition on the inside where the water's been getting in. I included the original photo to focus on how I should be sealing up the gaps between wood and glazing, but more long term suggestions are definitely welcome. The front of the porch roof looks to be supported by wooden supports left and right (condition fine), that the glazing panels are between.

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  9. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    You need to take all the glass out, repair any rot and then replace the glass using clear silicon between the glass and the frame.
     
  10. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I'd ring a few more local window fitters, not double glazed sellers. 3 and a half grand for that?
     
  11. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    It looks like the glass is held in by pinned beadings on the outside. So they have succumbed to weathering, letting in rain as you know already.
    You can undo the beadings, take out the glass and get on with some diy repairs. You can renew beadings or go for putty.
     
  12. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member


    Thanks - When using beading is something generally used to seal between the glass and bead?
     
  13. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

  14. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    Most of the standard sealants will do. I have used acrylic and exterior pva. But you will need to clean the glass.
    With anything like this periodic maintenance is needed.
     
  15. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    The beading is on the inside.
     
  16. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    As it should be, but it seems some are a bit proud of the frame. perhaps a previous repair job? what sayeth the op?
     
  17. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member

    I'm afraid you've lost me with the comments on internal beading. From what I can see you were exactly right with your initial assessment that the glass is being held from the outside with pinned beadings - I can see the pins underneath the paint.

    I think anything involving removing the glass is probably beyond me as I won't have an easy way to replace glass if I break it. It sounds like you are suggesting repairing it might not be very cost effective or it might be difficult to find someone to do it also.

    I guess I'll look for a more local London based joiner / window fitter and get some quotes for repair / replacement.

    To the person barfing at the quotes I had, they were to replace all the wood and use some sort of metal support in the corners. It included a door. All that and being in the south east probably explains the price, particularly as it wasn't a local fitter.

    Thanks for all the input
     
  18. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    You seen to have fallen foul that most modern glaziers who only want to deal with UPVC :rolleyes:

    This used to be a bread and butter for most glaziers and indeed a lot of painters and decorators but is still an easy DIY job.

    Removing the old panes of glass is quite easy, you just need to get the internal beads out - by snapping or cutting one side. Once you have removed one side the rest of the bead will come out. The old putty will need to be scrapped off with stiff blade.

    When you decide to put the old panes back in, you may find it easier to use old fashioned putty as it cleans up better than silicon
     
  19. Alex_

    Alex_ New Member

    Ah, you appear to be more observant via a low resolution photo than I do with my eyes, probably another sign that I'd cock this up.

    Yes you are correct, not all the beading is identical, some of it is not flush with the frame, and has a completely different profile (angled rather than curved). As to whether this was a previous repair I can't really tell, it certainly doesn't look recent, but that would be the only explanation unless the original installer ran out of the other stuff. I'm still lost with the suggestion that the windows are internally beaded though.

    Humour me, if I went ahead and attempted to incrementally replace the worst of the beading and ended up breaking glass, is it fairly straight forward to buy pre-cut glass from a glazier at short notice? I know nothing.
     
  20. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Yes your local glazier will cut to size while you wait. Fresh glass is also really easy to cut. Get a piece of greenhouse glass (cheap) to practice and a little ball end cutter and have a go. Dip the cutter in a drop of oil, press and score. Quick tap underneath with the ball and it will separate in your hand like a piece of chocolate.

    Old glass is more difficult. It gets a little more brittle as it ages
     
    KIAB likes this.

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