Problem with neighbour and fencing

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Mo Slater, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    I have a wall between mine and my neighbours...its my wall. It only goes three quarters of the way down the garden as I used to have an outhouse at the bottom which i removed. When i removed it, I had a 6 foot fence panel installed there to close the gap. My neighbour has built an outhouse(more like a shanty town) at the bottom of his garden and my fence panel seemed to form the side of it but he didnt attach anything to my fence. He has now approached me to say the fence panel was rotten so he removed it...i have a shed on my side so couldnt see the fence anyway. But he removed it without my permission and has asked me to go halves to build a wall there. I know what his game is, he wants a wall there so his man cave is watertight and hes even told me he'll put shelves on the newly built wall. I cant see the other side of my shed but im not happy about him removing the fence without telling me and im just having a new kitchen fitted so cant really afford to pay for this wall. Hes asked me if i will write a letter giving my permission for a wall to be built there...im not happy about this. I will pay for a new fence panel but why should i pay half of a wall thats clearly for his benefit? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you
     
  2. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    With "ownership" of boundary walls you have to establish which property build the wall - there is no "its on the left" so its mine etc. as most deeds will state that all boundaries are party.

    However, the fence panel is a different matter. It was your property - you bought it, paid for it to be installed, so technically removing it and destroying it is theft / criminal damage.

    The first port of call would be Building Control in your local council as there are many rules and regulations that apply to structures near boundaries and roadways - even under permitted development rules they can ask for structures to be removed / re-sited / reconstructed.
     
  3. yorkyguy

    yorkyguy Active Member

    Only my thoughts - Would it be a stalling tactic (on your part) to insist he reinstates the fence, rotten bits and all and to return all structures to status quo while you 'think about it'. I personally wouldn't agree to anything either verbally or in writing until you have stood back and had a good think. Sounds like he might be pushing it- don't succumb.
     
  4. These are the facts and the situation as I understand them...

    1) If it's 'your' fence, then he cannot touch it. The only exception would be if it were causing a hazard by threatening to fall down and cause damage to his property. In such a case, of course, he should have approached you first and not take the direct action that he did.

    2) Even tho' it's 'your' fence and 'your' responsibility and it is rotting, you do not actually have to replace it! Ok, that's not very neighbourly, but it's the law. So don't let him pressurise you against your better judgement or will.

    3) Obviously being a good neighb, you would want to replace the panel - but that's all you should be morally expected to do - replace it with a wooden panel to match the rest of your fence.

    4) Your neighb has not done the right thing so far. He should not have taken down that panel - he should have approached you to talk about it. He should not be asking you to contribute to a block wall - he could 'ask' you nicely if you'd please repair the timber fence, but that's all he can do - ask nicely. You can say 'no' (but that wouldn't be nice either; two 'not nices' does not a pleasant summer make.)

    Sooo, what are your options? Entirely up to you. You could:

    1) Do nothing - tell him to get stuffed. (But that wouldn't be very nice...)

    2) Inform him he shouldn't really have touched the fence, but you will get around to replacing that panel as soon as you can (the 'right' thing to do).

    3) Tell him that - LOL! - of course you won't contribute to a block wall! Is he mad?! A complete loon? A rabid Brexiteer?! What's wrong with the cove - does he think you're Mexican?

    4) You could tell him that no you won't contribute towards a block wall, but if he wants to build one to replace that panel at his expense that's ok with you (provided it is...)

    5) You could tell him that no he cannot build a wall in that space - he can go ahead with a wall, but it MUST be on his side of that fence line.

    I think that's about it...
     
    btiw likes this.
  5. Oh, and if he gets at all bolshie or pushy or certainly if he becomes aggressive, then call your local Bobby right away. They will take action and tell him to cease and desist.

    Don't put up with any unreasonable behaviour.

    (And record every contact you've had so far - date, time and what was said by both sides. And the manner in which it was said.)
     
    Mo Slater likes this.
  6. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    There was
     
  7. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    There was nothing wrong with the fence! I know that cos when i had my shed put up last summer, the guy who built it for me checked it all out as he was erecting the shed in front of it. He made sure it was all secure and the posts were ok etc. He actually said we may as well check the fence panel while we are at it as once we put the shed up we cant get to it from this side....he even treated it! So I know hes pulling a fast one as he wants a wall there to protect his man cave and have something to put shelves on. I think thats why hes taken it down without showing me. I knew he was doing something in their 2 sundays ago as he was banging and drilling all day! I cant believe hes waited 2 weeks to tell me this...probably so he could get rid of the evidence. He wants to build this section of wall with some old red bricks that someone has given him....it would be joined onto the existing wall which is large textured grey bricks. Im going to tell him that I will replace the panel and if I do decide to replace it with a wall at some point I want it to be the same bricks as the rest of the existing wall. I think thats quite fair
     
  8. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    No hes a nice bloke really but hes foreign and seems to think that because he owns his house he can do what he likes without permission....hes even removed his chimney stack and was even going to build a wood fired pizza oven on the other side of my wall until I told him he couldnt. Its like the house that jack built....hes built a pergola half way down the garden; posts made of breeze blocks which he cemented to my wall til i told him to remove it which he did. He just does what he likes
     
  9. Hmmm, 'ignorance' - whether intentional or not - is no excuse; he clearly needs to be told what the situation is.

    Having re-read your first post, I understand there's a brick wall going all the way down - except for the gap where your outhouse was and which was replaced by a fence panel?

    Ok, you need to be very clear so there's no misunderstanding at all. As part of your nice chat you should mention that you were certain the old fence panel was in good condition 'cos your chippie told you this a year ago - so you simply cannot understand why it was suddenly rotted. And you hold his gaze until he understands what you are implying... Then you ask to see the panel (which, of course, he won't have).

    Going ahead on this, there's a few things I think you should get clear in your mind so's you are not diverted from it when discussing this further with the guy.

    1) You are not prepared - at the moment at least - to build a block wall there to match the rest of your wall due to the cost; you simply cannot afford to do this (use this as your lynch-pin - he cannot expect you to do summat if you say you cannot afford to do so).

    2) If he's worried about the gap in the wall, you will replace the old panel with a new one of the same type - but he mustn't then take it down at any point without consulting you first. He needs to understand this - he mustn't TOUCH it. It's not HIS.

    3) If he wants to build a brick or block wall there, then it MUST be on HIS side of that border line allowing you room to continue your block wall or fence line there in the future. He is permitted to do this as it's on his land - so he can fill his boots on this. But 'his' wall MUSTN'T encroach on your wall.

    4) If he really wants to build a brick or block wall to fill that gap and make it matching, then (it's your call) you may give permission but it MUST be done to the same standards as the existing wall - and he must NOT, EVER attach anything to it on his side.

    Ok, now trying to look at it from a neighbour's perspective - assuming a reasonable neighbour with no ulterior motives - if your existing wall is a nice stone/block one that's a nice feature for both neighbs, and its appearance is now ruined by a single wooden fence panel inserted in to it, then I would suggest there's a kind of moral/neighbourly obligation for the wall's owner to make it all look good (possibly with the assistance of the other neighb since it'll hugely benefit them too). But there is no legal pressure that can be brought to bear on this - it would have to be voluntary. But I can imagine a neighbour thinking "What a thoughtless cheap-skate to replace with a cheap fence panel and ruin the whole wall..."

    However, I would suggest that this is not the case here since he has a 'man-cave' going on which will ultimately hide that section of fence anyway?!

    Good luck - and keep us posted.
     
  10. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    Thank you so much for your advice. Ive just been out to have a look and from what Im able to see from my bathroom window, his man cave is so close to my boundary, I dont think its actually going to be possible to put in a new fence panel from his side....looks like im going to have to get someone to move my shed so I can get to it.....im thinking this is why he wants a wall now as he has built this thing so close you wouldnt be able to get a panel in from his side! This has all been done to benefit him. Ive just heard him in the garden with someone and im sure hes had a builder round for a quote already
     

  11. So close to your boundary, but not on it is inconvenient at best, antaganistic maybe, but not really his problem if it is your fence. Don't forget you have poor access because of your shed on your land too.

    But I think I would be asking for the removed panel back, politely. That makes the point that it is yours and he can't take your posessions.
     
  12. btiw

    btiw Well-Known Member

    That made me laugh out loud.
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  13. Is your shed easy to move - and without damage? I suspect not.

    Be absolutely clear of a couple of things - he shouldn't have removed the old panel. Shouldn't. Technically, it could come under 'criminal trespass', although that would be stretching it. But, he did remove your property from your ground (with most fences being placed on their owner's side of the actual 'line'.)

    Also, there is no legal obligation on you to replace or mend or maintain 'your' fence. (If it falls down and hurts someone after the owner being told it's leaning or crumbling, that's different of course). Clearly, a good neighbour should maintain the boundary fence they are responsible for (which reminds me, I have three panels to fit in that gap I left open for 5 months now... :oops:) but they cannot be forced to do so.

    So the bottom line is, he's done wrong and you don't have to do anything about it.

    What you choose to do is up to you. If he managed to remove that panel from his side, it makes sense to me that a new panel can be fitted from that side too. So one option is to say you'll pay for a new panel to be fitted (after explaining you cannot understand why he removed the old one...) but it would need access from his side - is that ok? If the answer is 'no', then your answer can simply be "In that case I cannot replace it in the foreseeable future."

    If/when your neighb then tries to suggest the things he seems to be leading on to, you need to emphasise what he cannot do - under law.

    Ideally have a witness with you when you have this conversation, but in any case write down every detail. Just in case it all goes pear-shaped.

    If he starts trying to build a brick wall in that space, for instance, then you can be pretty sure he will also try and claim that either you didn't mind or else he was doing you a favour. He needs to know beforehand, so there's no doubt at all, that he cannot do this.

    He can go ahead and build on his side if he likes...
     
  14. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Having read all the facts as posted by yourself there is only one option left that may work...........................go tell your neighbour you voted for BREXIT! :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  15. My work here is done.
     
    btiw likes this.
  16. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    Jeezo hes european so if I did that he'd be building a 20 foot electric wall! Incidentally he has fitted cctv to the back of the house....one of those black balls and it looks into my garden!! I live in dread of what hes going to do next!
     
    btiw likes this.
  17. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    The cctv may be looked upon as intrusive by your local council if it effects your privacy!
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  18. He may be a 'nice guy', but I think he might need a gentle reminder of how we do things in Blighty...

    CCTV should NOT be covering your property.

    Do you live alone?

    Is the guy waiting for you to come back and give a response to the wall/fence issue?

    All I can suggest is to be as reasonable as you come across on here, record everything you both say, ideally have a witness (any chance?) and if there is anything you are unhappy about - like the CCTV - then be open about it. If he is unresponsive or unreasonable in return - as I fear he may be - they you should call the local Bobby out for a chat. He will soon work out that you are completely fair-minded and have no bone to pick with your neighb other than that they are being unreasonable and encroaching on your privacy.

    Having this chat with your Bobby will also put on record your concerns and that you've talked it over with your neighb, so if he then goes on to do something he's been told NOT to, the Bobby will be on-side.

    Keep us posted.

    (Don't forget you also have CAB to talk to.)
     
  19. Yes.

    And it's 'affects'... :)
     
  20. Mo Slater

    Mo Slater New Member

    No I live with my 2 sons. I do get on well with them, hes a lovely bloke, his wife is the feisty one and I suspect it was her who told him to come and ask me for half the money. He built a pergola last summer, halfway down the garden and two of the columns were made from breeze blocks.....he cemented them to my wall! I told him hes not allowed to do that. I went on to say if you havent done the footings correctly it could crack my wall. He said if it cracks ill repair it. I said no id like you to remove them and there must be a gap between my wall and your columns. I thought he was gonna cry and he said "But I worked so hard on this" I said really you shouldve asked me first. I suspect this is why hes asking me now, but I suspect shes the one who told him to ask me for a letter. I will see what cost he comes back with but if its too much then im not paying for a wall just so he can have a secure man cave and attach shelves to it.....he really shouldve considered all this before he built that awful thing.....it wouldve been so much easier to fill the gap before he built it
     

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