rated people be warned

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by bazza1, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Moravski

    Moravski New Member

    Hi everybody

    I cannot agree more with everyone on this forum when it comes to RP. I've been a member for the last 18 months as a Gas Safe Registered heating engineer and electrician. Since RP removed their credit refund policy last December (if you can not get in touch with the client or did not have an opportunity to quote for the job you'll get the amount lost credited back into your RP account) they also removed any responsibility or a shared risk for them. I took the immediate action. I was buying the job leads significantly less often and I limited the amount of money spend per a lead on maximum £10. One year later I'm not buying any leads and will be closing the account as soon as I spend my last few pounds left in it.

    From once relatively fair company Rated People become a pure corporate shark. Just to give you the idea. A month ago I bought the job lead for boiler repair worth £9.72 advertised as URGENT. For more than 10 days I tried to get in touch with the client via mob, email and sms. No success!!!! Got in touch with RP. They could not get hold of the "client" either. Regardless RP declined my request for the refund on the following grounds: "As far as we are concern the mobile phone and email address given by the client are valid. We do not take any responsibility if the client is not available or if he or she does not want to proceed with the works".

    In my opinion the only places worthy of RP name are Watchdog, Rip off Britain or Cowboy Builders. RP run their business in extremely speculative, deceptive and misleading way. There is a harsh truth to face for anybody considering to join RP. Forget about fairness or any kind of security. Most of the time you'll be buying lucky dips and get £0.00 in return while loosing whatever amount you already spend on job leads.

    I'll be leaving RP by the end of this month. For all of you thinking of becoming a member of RP I have no intention of trying to stop you. It is easy to join. If you are so keen "GOOD LUCK"!!!!! BTW you'll be better of playing a few lucky dips on National Lottery. At least you stand some chance of wining a few quid.
     
    Blooflame and FatHands like this.
  2. Taylorwadedecs

    Taylorwadedecs New Member

    Yh I was doing alright with RP for about 2 years and was getting decent prices, now it's just too competitive. I've left domestic decorating and gone on to contracting,still competitive but at least I'm competing against registered companies and not cash cowboys.

    As I mentioned before, RP is a PLC now so it's main aim is to keep shareholders happy at our expense! Can only see it changing if a competitor comes in and develops a business model based on RP flaws. Then everyone will jump ship. It's easily done but would need a lot of start up capital, I looked into it myself but couldn't raise the funds.

    Unfortunately, I forgot to cancel my membership and renewed this month but will be cancelling before Xmas.
     
  3. FindaTrade

    FindaTrade New Member

    Hello all,

    I work for FindaTrade.com and it is very interesting reading through this thread to hear you comments about RP.

    We have had a lot of tradespeople join us over the last few months as a direct response to their new 'no refund' policy. So it would seem a lot of tradespeople are moving away from them and doing so in large numbers.

    From reading this I can see a lot of people explaining what you do not like in these types of services, but not so much about what you would like instead.

    We have recently offered a new system to our current members which we will be looking to add for new joiners very soon. You pay a monthly fee depending on the price you want to pay for leads, so those who want more than a couple of leads per month will benefit from paying more in membership and getting reduced job prices. In fact, for a lot of our memberships the job leads become free. You can also save money by paying quarterly.

    We also offer refunds if you are unable to speak with the customer or on initial contact you are told the work is no longer available for all jobs costing £10 or over.

    I would really like your feedback on this system and if it is something more suitable for tradespeople's needs. I am not spamming anyone to sign up, it is purely to see if we are on the right track to offer something which is fair and equitable for all parties involved (Tradespeople, Homeowners, Ourselves).

    We are not as big as RP, but really want to become the alternative company that tradespeople want to use, and we can only do that if we listen to you the tradespeople and build a system you want.

    You can view the details and pricing for this system here: http://www.findatrade.com/trades/membership_pricing_chart/

    The 'current prices' shown at the bottom of the chart is what you currently pay if you do not pay a monthly/quarterly membership fee.

    Any feedback will be greatly received. I really feel there is a way that job lead websites can work for all those involved and not just benefit the company.

    Thanks for your time.

    Andy
     
  4. FatHands

    FatHands Well-Known Member

    Hi Andy.
    Welcome to the forum.
    I haven't had chance to have a proper look at the site at this moment (although pleased to see there appears to be a fully functional mobile version!).
    The only thing i would say is how are you going to deal with the things sites like RP appear to be having problems with?
    The way i see this lead generation business (from your perspective) is that you have to offer a huge sense of trust to the house holder and keep your customer (the tradesman) happy - sometimes these things will clash.
     
  5. FindaTrade

    FindaTrade New Member

    Hi Fats,

    Thank you for your reply and welcome to the forum :)

    I agree it is difficult when we have to look after two sets of customers (trades and homeowners) who are coming from different perspectives when using a service such as ours.

    We know that there will at times be problems, but we truly believe it is how we deal with any problems that defines our worth/reputation to those who use us.

    I really don't want to give a sales pitch here, because my reason for posting here today was not to try and sell our services. It was purely to understand a little more what tradespeople want form a service such as ours. However, we feel it is possible to have a win/win situation for all of our customers and this is very important to us because we want homeowners and trades to use us again and again.

    We have several things in place to help ensure fairness for all. We ask homeowners to tell us how serious they are about the work being done, we call every job to validate them and we ask them to select detailed criteria for how they will select and judge the winning tradesman/company. It takes time for a homeowner to post a job with us. The 'success criteria' information is shared with the tradesmen so they know what is expected.

    We provide a wealth of information and advice to homeowners on our members and how to select the best tradespeole. That linked to reviews and ratings and our policy of no rating is rejected after both parties have agreed to discuss any disagreements, plus we guarantee that at the time you make first contact, there is a job there to be quoted for, helps us bring both parties together because the best definition of quality we have ever heard is.... (and this applies to us as well as you) we want to sell goods/services that don't come back to us to customers who do (come back to us).

    We cannot guarantee that every job poster is serious and we cannot guarantee (because there are too many things beyond our control, like attitude, professional knowledge, etc.) that a trade will win business but we can help all parties share a common goal. This is why we want to provide greatly reduced job prices for tradespeople, so it reduces the risk you have when buying a lead. We still also refund for jobs costing £10 or over - so the risk is minimised even further.

    Unfortunately those companies which make the most from their customers can then afford to sign up more of them (sales/marketing etc). What we aim to do is to provide the best service at a much more reasonable price so that you the tradesman want to recommend us to others.

    It's a difficult process, but one we are determined to get right, which is why any feedback the trades people on this forum can offer will be gratefully received.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  6. Moravski

    Moravski New Member

    Hi Andy, just a little thing that as a tradesman I don't like about your refund policy. Over or under £10 does not matter. If a tradesman can't quote or get in touch with the client the job lead price should be refunded regardless of the price. Rated People got it wrong last year by removing the only security that trades people had with them. As a result everybody I know already left or is thinking about leaving RP.
    We are all in business to make money and everybody involved should share the amount of calculated risk taken. Membership of any kind comes at the cost and that is absolutely fine. However if somebody offers their members a "LUCKY DIP" policy like RP sooner or later majority of members will disappear.
    My message to any company doing the similar business to Find a Trade or RP is simple. Thousands of us trades people survived and managed to make a living long before Find a Trade or RP and we'll carry on doing so with or without you.
    Hopefully Find a Trade can learn from RP's mistakes and eventually put it right. A good start will be: Don't be to greedy!!! We all need to make a living and provide for our families".

    Best
    Moravski
     
  7. R.W_Carpentry

    R.W_Carpentry Active Member

    Andy, one thing I'm curious about regarding your pricing; who dictates how big the job is and how long it takes?
    A lot of homeowners can be disillusioned about how long a job may take or not have a clue, and indeed can some tradesmen for that matter! Similarly people will work at different speeds etc.
     
  8. FindaTrade

    FindaTrade New Member

    Morvaski,

    Thanks for the feedback.

    We took the decision regarding refunds because the feedback we had before, was that the high risk associated with paying a lot for bigger jobs and not winning the work was unacceptable. Every claim for a refund is investigated and the homeowner called for verification - we have had trades claim for refunds who were actually doing the work, so me have to monitor this closely. You can imaging that for small jobs, the effort required often outweighs the £4-£9 cost of the job lead, so to counter this we significantly reduced the price of all jobs and we are talking about over 50% and as much as 75% in most cases.

    This actually means a much better deal for tradespeople than offering refunds on everything under £10 and frees up our staff to focus on calling job posters and providing the best customer care service to tradespeople. Our pricing structure can easily result in jobs costing (including any membership fee) as little as £2 to £8 and even less. If you take our very basic membership and only buy one large job lead a month at £5 membership and £24 for the job, the total is still only £29 for the largest possible job leads we have. If you want 4-10 jobs a month, this can mean as little as £10-£18 per large job (all still refundable) including many of the smaller jobs which are free.

    We feel the compromise here in terms of not refunding jobs under £10 is far outweighed by the overall prices you pay. That said I will take the feedback on board, but to make all refunds viable for us, it is likely our prices would have to be higher to cover the costs of additional staffing. Of our current members we have spoken too almost all are happy with this system - it is of course never possible to please everyone.

    RW Carpentry,


    In reply to your question:

    The size of the job is a guide. We ask the homeowner for a broad estimate and then our staff alter this using industry standard estimates based on the work being carried out by a 1 to 2 man team. We also often speak to some of our tradespeople to help us understand the work required for a certain type of job. We decided to go this route for pricing rather than the customers budget because customers often supply a very low budget because they are scared of telling a trade how much they have and being ripped off. We can edit the estimated size of the job, but we cannot edit the estimated budget - this is only down to the customer. We also call many jobs to get extra detail so we can fully understand the work involved.

    Yes, some jobs often end up being larger or smaller than estimated - although in our experience they are often larger which means we have under priced them and you get them for cheaper. If a trade does inform us that the job was in fact much smaller we will investigate and refund the difference where necessary - this has happened only a handful of times in the past 5 years.

    There will always be debate about how to offer and price a service like this and we know it will come down to everyone asking....''is it worth it'? We say (and the majority of our current members say), yes and if you try it and think it is not, we really want to know about it. We know our customers will only stay with us if they are getting value for money.

    Thank you both for your replies and comments.

    Andy
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  9. FatHands

    FatHands Well-Known Member

    Hi findatrade,

    I had a look at your website on a pc last night and there seems to be jobs rolling in (i guess this is very competitive to rank for with the likes of RP ploughing money in to make sure they are always top of the shop) - are you using just search engines to attract Jo Public to your site, and if so, are you focusing on certain heavily populated parts at the moment? I assume your end goal is to grab the whole of the UK and wipe out the sharks?!

    I was surprised to see there is also a findatrade.co.uk which i guess is nothing to do with you?! For joe bloggs this is going to give you grief (assuming its nothing to do with you) as its easy to arrive at the wrong place!

    A few things that came to mind:

    1) I see you allow people to search for open jobs (which is great) but there doesn't seem to be a naming convention. I recall seeing the names of places where there are several in the UK - perhaps you could have the name of the area, followed by postcode so joe public and traders know it is/is not their area prior clicking the link for the job where you have embedded Google maps (which is a great idea) so skimming through is quicker?

    2) Do you make it clear to joe public their details are being sold? Perhaps an option at the end of their form submission to say "your details have been submitted for trade review at the cost of £X to them. The reason i think this would be useful is that people are less likely to waste traders time (one would like to think) if they know it cost them to acquire their details in the first place. It would also allow the trader to recoup that cost in their quote ;)
    In the advert i've attached the reason for requesting quotes: "the work is required but may be dependent on the quotes" could be interpreted as: we don't really need it doing at the moment/we just have an idea about something we may like one day/we have seen a program on the TV and like that idea and curious to know if we could do it one day.
    This type of job listing (to a fat hands like myself!) is not in the same category (and therefore price range) as one that states "i have no hot water since the ceiling came through".
    The attachment may result in 3 tradesmen paying for someone's details and nothing materialises for any of them.

    3) Would you consider offering an upload section so people are able to attach photos/plans of what they want and also time frames of when they are hoping their job can be started and finished?

    Personally, i think if you can get the job request as detailed as possible and vet it some way to rule out time wasters (easier said than done) this would help build things for you. With regards to house holders who don't proceed with anything -then you would get the vote of tradesmen if you refunded them. I can hear you say, but yellow pages wont give you a percentage back if half your queries are time wasters - no, but i can't see them around for the future, where the web is here to stay.
    To be quite frank, its my opinion that its down to your company to vet the details they are selling; just like a financial advisor is selling advise based on factual information from the lenders.

    I hope you find that helpful.

    findatrade_com_barry_job.jpg
     
  10. Moravski

    Moravski New Member

    Hi Andy

    Thank you for your reply. Sorry but I simply disagree with you about refund policy. Don't forget that your company is selling a possibility of getting the job to a tradesman. Or the opportunity. It is very possible that a tradesman will not get the job for a various reasons (wrong details for the client, client simply looking for a quote, client does not want to proceed or already found somebody else etc etc......)
    People are leaving RP every day for not having that small piece of mind, some form of security. I don't intend to join a company with the different name offering a similar sort of service. I don't mind paying for the membership and job leads but I simply want protection and freedom to buy a job lead without ifs or buts, without thinking shall I buy it or not even if the job is perfect for me.
    If Find a Trade decide to go that way please let me know. I'll be more than happy to join. In the meantime Marry Christmas and Happy New Year. Have a drink or two. Perhaps a few more after that. WHY NOT!!!!!

    Best Regards

    Moravski
     
  11. D1Yer

    D1Yer New Member

    Hi all,
    I've been reading many of the posts on this topic and can't believe how Rated People treats its members! So disgusting and money-grabbing! I'm a recent customer of RP - had a great tradesman who did an excellent job. This was before I discovered that RP squeezes the life-blood out of its members! And now that I know this I won't use RP again. Any suggestions for another source of excellent trades people? I need a roofer!
     
  12. justj

    justj New Member

    Hi D1yYer!

    What area are you please?

    .. As I am a roofer!..

    You may have read my post from a while back (within this thread)

    It is a coincidence I am replying to you.. As I am only reviewing the thread due to receiving an email notification!

    I have long left RP.. Due to horrendous policy changes (but I was one of their highest rated / busiest roofers (in my area) & (prestigious?!) "ask an expert"..

    Fortunately, these days word of mouth (from previous work / RP work) generates more than enough work for me..

    Although, I never allow an opportunity to pass!

    Best Wishes
     
  13. D1Yer

    D1Yer New Member


    Hi justj
    Thanks for the quick reply! We're in Stratford, east London. Is this feasible for you?

    Let me know, ta.
     
  14. justj

    justj New Member

    .. that is a shame.

    I live in Parkstone, Poole & operate in Dorset area, (mostly!)

    There will be reputable roofers much nearer your area than myself..

    But it is always worth an ask (for both of us)

    Best wishes

    Justin J
     
  15. D1Yer

    D1Yer New Member

    Hi again Justin
    I work with a heating engineer who commutes from Sheffield. Surely a day trip to London from Poole is doable! Seriously though, thanks very much for your reply and interest. Best wishes to you!
    Michelle
     
  16. BruceG

    BruceG New Member

    Hi folks,

    I'm considering investing in a business which aims to offer a slightly different solution to RatedPeople and other lead-selling solutions. This other business (lets call it Aardvark) wants to be more like Hailo or Uber, but for tradesmen instead of taxis. So it would be a live marketplace assigning jobs to best available tradesman, not just selling leads to tradesmen.

    It would only work for small jobs (where customer doesn't really need a quote, they just want someone to come round soon and do it, like fitting a new tap or changing a light fixture or replacing a couple of broken roof tiles).

    Tradesman would not pay for a lead or anything, they just get the job and Aardvark collects some % of the job (just like if you are a minicab driver on the Uber system, or you own a B&B and advertise it on Booking.com. You, the business owner, pay a % commission on each ride (Uber) or night booked (Booking.com)). There'd be a simple shared calendar system managed through an iPhone app so tradesmen can see jobs sent to them, mark them as complete, email the customer an invoice, etc.

    Should I invest in this business? Would you use it? (Happy to flesh out with more details if anyone is interested to hear more, but don't want to spam this forum if this idea is a non-starter).

    Bruce
     
  17. justj

    justj New Member

    I'm looking I to this system..

    I will report the pro's & con's about it here!

    Let's hope that my opinions are considered seriously (if & when provided)

    As RP didn't listen.. & this was ultimately their down-fall...
     
  18. justj

    justj New Member

    Bruce,

    In a nutshell..

    It doesn't sound like it will work for a few reasons.

    It doesn't sound like anything new either.. what is the USP ??

    A business model does not always work when transferring it from one industry to another.
     
  19. justj

    justj New Member

    Hi Michelle,

    Yes, a road trip is possible..

    But it is my time & expense (without knowing the work) & I do have a reasonable amount keeping me busy to kind the time to make the journey.

    AsIo, should I dare say it - but if a problem persists - you need the tradesperson to be near - so that they may respond / attend promptly (most definitely in the case of a roofer)

    Best Wishes
     
  20. BruceG

    BruceG New Member

    Justin,

    Well, the USP for the householder is that they can actually book someone online to do the job (rather than post a job and wait for tradesmen to contact them)

    USP for tradesmen is they get reliable flow of actual work on auto-pilot, rather than having to pay for leads and manually contact the customer to schedule the job. For the tradesman, it would be like working for a well-organised firm with an office of people doing marketing and scheduling and what-not, but without the downside of having a boss, working fixed hours, etc.

    Big question marks for me:

    1. Most tradesmen work by visiting and giving a quote first, even for small jobs. Aardvark system will only really work by quoting an hourly rate to the customer and providing a rough ("2-4 hours" or "A day") estimate of time. Tradesman would then confirm / amend that estimate when they arrive. This is a different 'workflow' to how most tradesmen operate currently (I think). Will that work?

    2. Aardvark system would rely on knowing the availability of tradesmen on the system, so tradesmen would need to maintain a calendar showing when they were free so that jobs could be scheduled for them. Will that just be too much of a PITA?

    Bruce
     

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