Re-wiring advice

Hi Geoff B

In domestic wiring you only need to connect to 1 earth terminal on the socket plate - doesn't make any differance which one you use, they both perform the same function

Please ensure that the earth wires are sleeved and that you run a fly lead between the earth on the socket plate and the earth tag on the back box

Regards
David

 

No real need to fly lead a back-box (as long as one lug is fixed)

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a sparky or builder just one of those dreaded DIY ers so don't have an in depth knowledge of current wiring regs but.....

Surely it makes sense to use a fly lead between metal socket plate and back box as a sure form of earth continuity - even if it's not regs, it must be good practise and done this way more often than not

Sockets are often unscrewed from wall and kept live whilst decorating (probably not best practise but it happens) and now socket plate is not earthed

For the sake of a few inches of earth wire and 60 seconds think it makes sense to add

What do the pro sparkies think on this issue - feel a can of worms being opened here !!!!!!!

 

Hi Dave..am not a ''pro sparky'' myself but do always earth the backboxes with a flyer..have done this for years but do appreciate the fixed lug not requiring this practice in some situations.

As a matter of interest a lot of people strip CPC out of the cable and use this for flying (if a flyer is needed, and on some stuff it is a requisite)..however myself always use 1.5 stranded.

 

  I presume you are talking about metal socket plates Dave..don't forget the CPC goes into the lug on the socket (as metal light switches also) thus earth would not be negated if unscrewed from back box.

 

Dave, as JP says, in normal situations where twin & earth cable is used the earth wire would go straight to the accessory & not to the back box therefore by unscrewing it from the backbox would not result in the socket not having an earth.    There are situations where the back box needs a tail betrween it & the socket but not normally.    A flush box is classed an unexposed conductive part.  If it was say a surface metalclad socket the backbox is classed as an exposed cunductive part which is different & does need the flylead.

 

I am a little concerned at the statement that only one earth wire is present. If the circuit had been wired properly as a ring there would be two pairs of conductors in each socket. The fact you appear to have only one suggests a junction box in the floor void above with branches down to each socket. Poor wiring. Should not have been done that way. I would recommend you take some floor boards up above the kitchen and take a look.

 

Just wondering UP if the OP has 2 earth wires from the T & E's twisted together and covered with 1 length of G/Y sleeve giving the impression of 1 earth wire - or is it a spur?

Kind regards.

BS

 

That is a good point Bazza. Prolly what it is. All depends if there are two phase and neutral though.

 

Hi Geoff

To help us answer your question, howmany live conductors (red or brown), how many neoutral conductors (black or blue) and how many strands of earth wire - 1, 2 or loads - do you hav in the socket?

Kind regards

BS

 

My spelling gets worse!! Should read space between how and many, neutral and have.

Whiskey helps relax but causes havoc with the spell check!!

 

The reason your sockets have two earth terminals, is so as to provide high integrity earth terminations for use in circuits where high earth leakage currents are expected.
There's nothing to prevent you using such sockets for normal circuits, and just using one terminal.

 

Thanks to J.P. and wally re the information on earthing socket back boxes, as I say I'm not pretending to be a pro or a "nobby know all" just a DIYer trying to offer some advice on a forum

I think that my initial reply to  geoff was correct, ie connect to either one of the earth terminals on the socket plate but just got a bit muddled with the issue of the back box

Now understand that the socket will remain earthed at all times, even if unscrewed from the wall and yes when I've replaced sockets in my house, have always run the earth straight to the socket terminal but have then added a fly between socket and box if not already in place - seems now not required but spose can't do any harm eh !!

Understand now about earthing metalclad, surface mounted boxes and that flush mounted boxes are deemed as an unexposed conductive part but what are the situations when a flush box does require a flyer, as mentioned above

Thanks for info and advice and I'm always happy to learn - thanks J.P. and wally
David

 

Well you shouldn't remove a socket from a back box with the circuit energised. It should only be removed with the circuit isolated. So that argument is spurious anyway. An earth fly lead is a waste of time. The eyelet in the accessory terminal screw hole transfers the earth through the terminal screw on to the back box. I don't know of any modern back boxes that have two sliding terminals, one is always fixed. As long as the accessory is properly earthed that is all you need to concern yourself with.

 

No problems Dave, and have a nice day m8.

 

Hi.

I'm just a DIYer, so please excuse my ignorance.

I saw this thread, and it seems to relate to what I'm doing at the moment. So at the risk of repetition (sorry), can I ask for some clarification?

I'm replacing some 2G plastic sockets with metal ones. They're the new ones, so there are two earth connections instead of one.

The metal back box has the main earth wire connected to it. Then there is one fly lead connecting from that, which I presumably connect to either of the available earth connections on the metal socket.

Would that be the correct thing to do, or do I need to alter anything?

I'd appreciate your expertise. And once again, sorry for going over the same kind of ground.