Rock 'n Roll Toilet

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Ballistic, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    Hi Folks,

    Had a toilet put in some years ago on a cement base to bring it up to the height of the pipe and NO bolts. Anyway, the cement was starting to disintegrate causing the toilet to rock back and forth and the pipe at the back began leaking.

    I have decided to have a go myself.

    I replace the cement base and outflow pipe and it no longer leaks, all is good, but... I really needed to go sit on the toilet this morning after 24 hours, I though the cement would be dry. And the cement kind is dry, but without bolts and no heavy weight of the cistern in place as yet, the toilet still rocks forward off the cement base.


    So....


    My question is, did I not do a good enough job to get the toilet to "stick" to the cement, or is a toilet that is not bolted always going to rock if you don't have that cistern on it and either screws or blob of silicone sticking that in turn to the wall?
     
  2. The cement will likely not be fully cured after 24 hours, especially if the room is cool. And, once it's moved, it's shot - it will not reset.

    Cement should be more than strong enough on it's own - once fully cured, it ain't going anywhere (assuming you made a decent 3:1 mix, or so.)

    So your choice, I guess, is to redo as before, allowing more time (ie - hover over the pan and drop from a height... :rolleyes:) or else use quick-set stuff like wot they 'ave for concrete posts. (You'll have 20 minutes to get it done!)
     
  3. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    Oh no, the room was freezing and it's definitely not fully cured.
     
  4. In that case you have answered your own Q...

    Either wait until you are constipated, or else use quick-setting mortar. For the latter, get ready to work quickly - levelling and aligning the pan, etc.

    An alternative idea - to avoid the full permanence of fixing with mortar - is to bed the pan down but use some sort of release agent to prevent the pan from actually adhering. I dunno - a smear of Vaseline? Cling-film?

    Bed the pan down with gentle tapping and avoiding all 'rocking' movement so that the mortar bed is a perfect 'fit'. Finish off the mortar edges neatly with a round wood former and allow to fully set. Lift the pan off, wait for the concrete to dry fully, and then re-bed it using a bead of StixAll or similar.

    The mortar bed should be such a perfect fit that the pan shouldn't move sideways, and the adhesive will then keep it in place. But there will always be the option to remove the pan should it be necessary.

    (But only bother if you think it's worth it...)
     
  5. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Also because there is limited air it will take longer to cure.
     
  6. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Just wondering could a screw plug be inserted into the pan base holes as an extra form of security. But allow it all to go off before inserting a screw? Use Stainless steel screws or brass slotted head.
     
  7. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    Can you pick up quick drying cement in B&Q, I could go after I've finished work? Is it expensive? I bet it's a nightmare to get off your trowels and bucket? It's really been a bad week, as the leaking toilet coincided with a bout of diareah and back pain which means I didn't have the strength not to sit on the toilet freshly cemented. Too much information I know. :(

    The whole toilet is resting on very tough floor tiles, resting on real old creaky floor boards. I'm surprised it ever stayed still in the first place. No bolt holes through the heavy tiles.
     
  8. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    + use a level if not previously used to make sure its all plumb.
     
  9. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    You may not get a good bond to your floor tiles especially if the tiles are glazed or polished.
     
  10. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    How thick is the bed of cement you are sitting it on, just wondering if it would be better long term to stick something tile a terrecotta tile to the floor then stick the pan to that and just tidy up the edges with cement or even mastic if it's not to thick..
     
  11. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    Just under half inch. I also didn't use a spirit level first time and am just using the outline left behind on the floor to position it.
     
  12. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    The cement underneath hadn't set at all! It was like dark gritty clay! It had come from a bag of ready mixed mortar I had in the loft for a few years! I'm so glad I hadn't plumbed the cistern back on. Because I live in a flat and don't want to end up with left over materials, I bought a small bag or mixed mortar for a previous job.

    Do you know if I can get the quick drying stuff in a small bag?
     
  13. Can you not stick it down with something like ct1 power grab amazing stuff guess u have to try sort base at first if its flexing under maybe a flexible tile adhesive would be best bet u can buy that in any size bag
     
  14. Goes off in few hours too to let you poo
     
  15. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Cement products have a shelf life usually about 9 months from date of manufacture, also you have to mix the ready mixed products. I think the best thing to do is get some upvc (visit your local Eurocell or similar, they usually have damaged products at the from outside and they will let you take it for free if you ask) and then place the pan on this draw around it and cut it so it is less 6-7mm than the overall measurement and bond this to the bottom of the pan. You can then put a bead of silicone around the whole pan when its has set.
     
  16. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    Thanks for all the tips, I've bought 60 min instant cement. There was a tub of branded 10 minutes cement on the shelf believe it or not! I will use a spirit level this time. I can see the point in it as soon as I tried it on the old attempt!
     
  17. 60 min sounds nifty.

    I used 10 minute stuff once, when I lived in the top floor flat of an old Edwardian building. I decided to use cement to reset some cut tiles I'd removed to allow the gas flue to come out, so climbed out the kitchen dormer window and on to the top of the dormer with a bucket and tools and stuff. Risked life and limb.

    Took me 11 minutes to set everything up... :(
     
    plumberboy and caveman bulider like this.
  18. Ballistic

    Ballistic Member

    I've built the new base, but realised I'd got fast setting concrete, not cement. Oh well, I think it will work. Whoever gets to chip it away when I've sold this place is going to curse me.
     
  19. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    my first flat had the WC pan cemented this way, it must have been done when the floor was screeded, as it was hard to remove the mass of concrete when the pan was replaced.
     

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