Sanding, lots and lots of sanding.

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by DozStanford, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. DozStanford

    DozStanford New Member

    Greetings,

    After 3 months I am nearing completion of a complete renovation of our stairs and hallway, one of the final jobs before caulking and painting is the sanding down of 6 doors & frames, 3 flights of floating wooden stairs, handrails, banisters, aprox 13m of skirts and some other odd bits of dress.

    Most has been stripped using a heat gun and it now all needs sanding. I started off using an old Ryobi palm sander hooked up to a Henry however it is very slow going and the palm sander H&L pad is already on its last legs.

    I am considering buying this....
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-d26430-gb-300w-detail-sander-240v/31810
    and the dust extractor attachment (which SF don't appear to sell) and this....
    http://www.screwfix.com/p/festool-ctl-midi-62ltr-sec-dust-extractor-240v/4432p
    although to be honest I would prefer a 5m hose, which appears to be a rather expensive addition.

    Anyone have a better solution or should I go ahead and order the above, thank you kindly in advance for any input or ideas.

    Doz
     
  2. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    As far as sanding goes, that detail sander is good for - - detail! but rubbish for larger areas. You need at least a 1/3 sheet sander like this

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-bo3710-sheet-sander-240v/6330j

    If you have already removed the paint and just need a finishing sand the sheet sander will be fine, but will still be slow going if there is any paint to remove, in which case a belt sander is better for larger areas.

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb290sdr-3-belt-sander-230v/51603

    With all sanders start with a coarse grit 40-60 and work down to a finer grit 120-180

    As far as vacuum goes, the festool will be no better than the henry (which are decent small vacs). It's a small class L vac designed to work with festool tools. The problem with sanding is the fine dust will blind the filter of any vac quickly so the bigger the vac and bigger the filter, the more chance you have of keeping that filter clear for longer. The so called "filter shaker" on the festool is unlikely to keep that filter clear of fine dust for long. Perhaps...

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb431vac-1400w-40ltr-wet-dry-vacuum-cleaner-240v/39587

    If you have loads and loads of sanding and cutting to do it can help to make a cyclone interceptor which will collect a good portion of the dust before it gets to the vac. Here's mine.

    You can buy vacuum hose in many different places online in various lengths and its easy enough to cobble up connections. Making an interceptor is probably overkill for your job! :p
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Makita BO3710 excellent sander,highly recommended, had mine years.
     
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  4. DozStanford

    DozStanford New Member

    The reason I opted for the detail sander is despite their being lots to sand, individual areas are not large. The doors are panelled, a sheet sander isn't going to help on the door stops or frames for that matter, or the skirts up the stairs, the only area a sheet sander would be preferential is on the actual wooden steps.

    RE the vac, I have this morning been looking at ways to adapt the Henry to make it more useful, I've got some 32mm ribbed hose (left over from when we upgraded our pond filtration system) and with a coupler and some hose clips I'm sure I can make that work somehow.
     
  5. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    Use arbanet mesh sheets in the sander not paper. You can buy packs near enough the size and shape off net but I cut them 10mm bigger with scissors as I buy boxes of the large sheets and on a roll. Velcro ready. They sand really well and last 4 times as long than paper plus 95% dust gets sucked up to vacuum. No need to punch holes in. You can buy on rolls to and cut to size. 180 and 120 grades will work for you.
    Mirka Abranet Abrasive Sheets
     
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  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Got a Bosch GOP 250 multi tool, so many use, better than the Dewalt I reckon (never been a fan of Dewalt) you can find Bosch in various kits.
     
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    That's the name I couldn't remember, they last considerably longer than ordinary paper.

    And you can get Mirka Abranet Hand Dust Extraction sanding blocks, various sizes & will connect to a dust extractor.
    Got a few of them including the useful Roundy one, takes a folded circular disc.
     
  8. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    I'd still be using a sheet sander on door stiles, rails and frames, finishing off with a detail sander for all the nooks and crannies. (or even by hand - I often find hand sanding is easier for small areas, particularly for round and curved sections) Trying to sand a whole door with a detail sander is not recommended! - not least because with sharp corners and edges you are likely to make scars in the flat surfaces. Yes, adapt the henry if you can. They are a decent vac, but the fairly small filter will blind up quite quickly with fine dust. The drum vacs have bigger filters.
     
  9. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    +1 ^^ mine's done some work too. :) - much better than the "green" bosch I had before it.
     
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  10. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Have a Makita VC2012 class L dust extractor,can't fault it,other than cost of fleece bags, but the Alto Fisk ones fit & are much cheaper, also use mine with a cyclone interceptor (Separation Dust Collector) which came off Ebay.
     
  11. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    You can make adaptors up to fit vacuum out of sink waste pipe and heat up to mould. Also universal vacuum adaptors on eBay for a couple of pounds. 32mm fits Henry and you will want the black small tube that came with Henry accessory pack. I bought more tubes and used small screws and duck tape up to secure. Also use wet and dry... Wet...... For fine work if you want dust free with a pair of rubber gloves
     
  12. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    Best electric sander. Dustless, is Festool RTS 400... You will need the velcro adapter to use arbanet sheets or they won't stick....Mirka DEOS is the competition. I can't make my mind up which to buy.
     
  13. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Doz,

    For the fine detail work have a look at the Festool R090. It can go between a fairly aggressive sand to a silky smooth finish with one tool. It has the unique ability to go from an orbital sander to a "delta" sander for corners and small spaces. Hook it up to a good extraction system and 99% of the dust will be removed. There are quite a few videos on YouTube showing its capabilities. I sold off a huge number of sanders a while ago and just use two Festool ones now

    Have a look on line the prices do vary and our hosts are having their tool fair at the end of September where you will get 10% off all products - plus the potential for some more discounts.

    I found that even my wife is impressed with the Festool sanders and cleaners and has no qualms helping out these days with sanding
     
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  14. DozStanford

    DozStanford New Member

    Just wanted to quickly say thanks for the posts, I haven't read them all yet and I will reply properly shortly I'm just reading up on the Mirka Abranet range.
     
  15. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Hmm. Festool RTS400 ~£250 Many other sanders ~£50 Much as I like Festool kit it's difficult to see added value to wiggle a bit of abrasive about. All this "dustless" is OK for professionals using kit continuously. For anybody else making a bit of dust and cleaning up afterwards is no big deal and the way we all did it for years and years before the latest fashion for everything to be "dustless". Wear a £2 face mask if you're bothered about dust!

    sometimes it's just easier to clean up afterwards than have the vac keep blocking up every 2 minutes..... :)
     

    Attached Files:

  16. DozStanford

    DozStanford New Member

    Thanks for this info, very useful. I had actually planned to buy the Marshalltown vacuum sander to give the plaster a quick going over after some Aimes patching, with the abundance of stuff available I'll defo be going with the Mirka.


    I've been looking at cyclone extractor bins and am struggling a bit, I think it would be most prudent to use one as I have been washing the filter cover on the Henry quite often. I've found this.... (sorry if I shouldn't be posting links to other stores) http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodwo...ystems-cyclone-dust-collector-rutlands+dk2103
    Rutlands Cyclone Dust Collector for £50, comes complete but will likely need a couple of 2.5" step down adaptors.


    Is the Festool RTS 400 really worth £400 ? and the Mirka DEOS are just sheet sanders, the RTS 400 has a replaceable plate so I'm unsure how it's the competition.
     
  17. DozStanford

    DozStanford New Member

    I didn't really want to go into this but, I'm a carer for my mother and one of her ailments is COPD and the reason why it has taken me 3 months to gut and rebuild the stairs and landing (despite is being 3 flights of stairs) is than every 30 mins I have a quick hoover up and at the end of each day I spend nearly 2 odd hours, hoovering, washing down, a second going over with a hoover followed by a quick hoover and dust of the rest of the house, and that's with 3 Vax air purifiers on the go as well. I've been using 3M reusable dusts masks for myself but I just can't afford for any dust to escape out of the area I'm working and at the end of each day where I'm working needs to be spotless as mum can get a chest infection at the drop of a hat, which results in a hospital stay as over the counter antibiotics don't work sadly.
     
  18. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    It could be a decent buy if it works OK - no reason why it shouldn't. Mine was a tenner for the cyclone from 'bay and a 40litre drum that had been used for lime pickle from same place same price, but then you have the hassle of making it.

    Seriously, why don't you just do the sanding with a mask on, use a dustpan and brush to sweep up the bulk of the mess and hoover up afterwards. Maybe this is all getting a bit over-thunk? And IMHO there is very very little difference in any sanders performance - they all just wiggle abrasive. If its just this one job or occasional DIY buy a couple of budget machines - the Titan kit is usually perfectly serviceable and reliable (or at least the stuff I have is) if a little rough and ready. I only buy expensive tools when I know I am going to use them loads or need a particular level of performance.
     
  19. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    That changes everything - disregard my last post.

    In this case I think possibly another option is to hire a site vac e.g. https://www.hss.com/hire/p/site-vacuum and use sanders with decent dust extraction take-off. However, even then you are going to be very hard pressed to completely contain dust when doing a lot of sanding because dust collection is never 100% and sanding is probably one of the jobs with a lot of "spill". Is there any possibility of moving mother out for a couple of days and blitzing the sanding and then having a good clean up? I think it is particularly over optimistic to think that vac attachments will collect all the dust when you are sanding e.g. bannisters and hand rails.
     
  20. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Would be better to hire a M or H class dust extractor.
     

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