Hi Can anyone please advise the correct baton distance for 72mm insulated plasterboard fixed to a hipped ceiling and distance between screws? My installer has fitted some very large panels with the distance between screws/baton centres ranging from 500 - 90mm. Many of the boards are loose and/or bowing. Many thanks
500mm to 900mm? Nearly a metre gap in some cases? Seriously? I'd have thought it would require the same spacing as normal board, which is something like (but confirm) around 300mm-ish? The board's manufacturer's website will have all the fitting requirements on it - is it Knauf?
300 mm spacing for screws Battens would depend on size of board used 1200 x ???? 2.4 = 400 2.7 = 450 3.0 = 400
Don't know what the make is unfortunately. The panels are all different sizes but generally about 1.2 metre in height then anything from 500mm width to about 2000mm. He says the building control inspector says that it doesn't need any more support and that 'every roof is different'. This doesn't seem right to me and just wanted to check! Regards
The plaster coloured areas are where I have excavated hardwall plaster that had been used to fill in the large gaps.....
If it's sagging, then it obviously isn't supported enough. In the first pic, looking at that LH sheet, was is the spacing between the horizontal rows of screws, (obviously two different spacings) and hat is the gap between the screws along the top?
What exactly has your guy done here, he filled in between the rafters with celotex, metal it out then boarded ontop?!
Hi. It's a Guardian solid roof for conservatories which is supposed to be very insulated (0.18 u value). It's an aluminium frame with lightweight tiles, ply, 2 layers of celotex then insulated plasterboard. I'm not a plasterer or builder but I think the plasterboard job is sub-standard. The gaps are very large and the plasterboard doesn't look as if it has been secured firmly. It all moves when you push it. Some of the gaps were filled with hardwall which just shrunk, cracked and started to crumble. I had two plasterers come to quote who said they would not plaster over it as the ceiling was so badly done and it would end up cracking - they suggested it all come off and be re-batoned, more screws and insulation foam for the gaps . The builder does not seem to believe he has done a bad job. He says building control don't require any more work on it but I'm not sure this is completely a building control question - surely it is about what is normal plasterboarding practice.
on my equinox solid roofs i always leave it to plasterers , are you using the steel tiles or tapco tiles ?
One thing that stood out for me here is the use of hardwall adhesive to fill the gaps and join the sheets... . In a flexible, moving structure... I'm not a pro, but in the 'insulating a connie roof thread' even I suggested that expanding foam should be - gently - used to fill any gaps in insulating board. The reasons are obvious. That's why it occurred to me and others. Why doesn't the 'boarding' guy also do plastering? I'd have thought it would be the same guy - and then you'd be able to hold only him to account if (when?) cracks appear or sags become obvious. You now have a dilemma 'cos if this ceiling does become faulty, you know exactly what'll happen - neither will take responsibility. (Of course, it might be that it'll be fine...) So, what I would do in your position is to ask the insulation installer to sign an acknowledgement indicating your concerns and ensuring any problems will be dealt with right away by them. Including any making good afterwards. You are a 'lay-man'. You are not 'supposed' to know if this roof is ok or not. You are meant to be given a warranted job by professional people. So, if you had said nothing about this, then you would have lived happily with it - until an issue occurred (if it ever did). At that point you would have had a complete 'mare sorting out who is liable; you'd have to 'prove' who was responsible for any issues, the installer or the plasterer. As it happens, you are aware enough to suspect it ain't all 'good', and also your plasterer is saying "I ain't gonna skim that!". So, two options as far as I can see: One is that this indicates comprehensively that the installation is not good enough and it is very likely to cause issues in future - so it needs redoing. The other is that the installer also carries out - or arranges to have done - the plaster skimming. That way only they will be liable if it goes pear-shaped in future. One person takes the rap. For option one (the best option...), you need to make clear in writing the reasons why you consider the work to be sub-standard. (YOU ALSO WITHHOLD FINAL PAYMENT). For this you cite as much as you can - the fact it has a lot of movement. That they used brittle adhesive for filling flexible joints.The simple lack of fixings (Knauf say 10 per m2). Photographic evidence of bowing. A short video clip of the amount of movement. Etc etc. You then present this in a letter and inform them you want it redone properly. Give them a date. If they fail to do so, you will withhold their payment and get someone else to do so instead. (You know what? That's just too bludy much insulation up there anyways. The world has gorn insulation mad, I tells ya. And inch and a half of Celotex up there would be MORE than enough. Adding more than this makes next to s'all extra difference; the first thickness has reduced the heat loss sooo much that any extra thickness can only affect the teeny bit that's got through the first! Ie - next to now't.)
Thank you very much for your comprehensive advice. Sorry not posted earlier - been busy with work. I didn't want him finishing the plastering as they started hardwalling the brick walls (before the roof was finished) and made a pretty bad job of it. He then wanted to charge me £1800 for the plastering and first fix electrics which we disagreed on so he withdrew the services. I'm now glad that this happened because the quality of the plastering is so bad. I am withholding the final payment (25%) but haven't been asked for it yet. He is not responding to my emails. This was supposed to be a two week job in May that has dragged on six months. We have had to put right a number of jobs ourselves and I'm just wondering what would be a reasonable amount to claim as compensation? The stress and misery have been significant as well as our time and money spent fixing the botched jobs. We have been living on a building site for months.... again it was supposed to be a two week job. Regards
depends on what the 25% comes in at .... how many botched jobs was the £1800 on top of quote ? id keep the lot back how did the tiling of the roof go pics ??
Oh dear - it sounds like another cowboy job that's been allowed to crawl along for faaaar too long. A 2 week job that's lasted 6 months? Why the hell didn't you sort this sooner? Unless you have a record of the issues and proof that you've complained about all these issues, then you are pretty much at stage one - starting the complaints procedure. I'm afraid you cannot just start dictating 'compensation' and the 'cancelling of contracts'; these guys have rights too. So, if you try anything like "Don't turn up any more, and forget the final payment", they can sue you. And they'll likely win. What you need to do is challenge them in writing, citing the unacceptable standard of their work so far - dry walling, plastering, ceiling insulation, etc - and giving them an ultimatum; redo the work to an acceptable standard or else you will get someone else to do so instead and use the outstanding amount to pay for it (and sue them for any excess to boot). You give them a 'reasonable' time to accept this and get it done. I reckon they need to start this work within a week, and a further week to complete it all is fair too. You need to show - prove - that you've given them this ultimatum, and why, and that they have failed to respond to it. You've tread water for 6 months so far - it's now time to do it right. (Get advice from your local Citizens' Advice (or phone them up) to ensure you do this properly. CA is bludy brilliant.)
truly awful just one part of a picture shows the problem - screws not even in the lath !! It needs striping. To be honest, I would take everything I can so that you can check the roof. I wouldn't be surprised to find the odd screw has gone up and puncture the roof lining.
integrity of a vapour barrier? If I were a betting man I'd bet on the whole lot being black with mould in 3 months.
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