Shed base by landscaper looks very sandy coloured!

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Penelopejean, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. Penelopejean

    Penelopejean New Member

    Hello all,
    I know there are lots of questions about bases but none that answers my exact question.
    Bit worried as we've had a base built yesterday and it looks a bit dodgy. The chap was going to put slabs down but decided as the ground is very soggy he should do a slab.
    It's 10 w x 12 long. Grass was cleared.Very little hard core went down if any. Sand about 2-3inches went on top. I have only found 1 nearly empty bag of cement. Fine gravelly ballast with sand was used but not sure what ratio. After a frosty night uncovered I looked to see and it is very very sand coloured. Not grey concrete. It has a rough gravelly surface and is far from smooth. It it also not level in any particular direction. One end where he started seems firm but other is soft. He said not to remove shuttering ever and wait for it to rot. Am I worrying un necessarily? the patio he built isn't brilliant either but he's a nice chap and he's hard-up as he keeps asking for money. we've paid half so far.
    What to say to him if anything.....
    Please help. Why do I always get these dodgy people?
     
  2. "Why do I always get these dodgy people?" Because he was cheap?

    Sorry - that does sound dodgy. The actual colour might not be an issue, as some sands are very strongly coloured so the concrete will also look like this. So, I've no idea from that whether it's ok.

    However, suggesting the shuttering should be left to rot away is - well - blimey - very suspicious!

    And an overnight frost is bad news for newly-laid concrete. How low did the temp go? Any signs of frost on the actual slab?

    Ok, it'll take a couple of days for concrete to reach close to its full strength, so you should have a very good idea of its condition then - see how easy it is to rub/scrape/score the surface.

    If the patio he built isn't brilliant (can you explain in what ways?), why on earth is he still there.

    Pros will be along to state what depth the ground should have been excavated to, and what layers should have been used to build it up from there. And, frankly, if he decided on a cast base as opposed to slabs 'because the ground is soggy', then the work he carried out should have been very thorough.

    What's going on this base - a shed? How to be built - timber or block?

    Anyhoo - I'm sure you'll have lots of further comments on here. Not sure you'll like them, tho'... :oops:
     
  3. Penelopejean

    Penelopejean New Member

    Well, we don't know if he was cheap or not to be honest. £1750 for a patio 10' x 14' of 600sq very plain 38mm thick slabs and a base 10' x 12' of concrete or so called. Is that cheap or not? Only had one quote which came when my other half was feeling flush!
    The patio for a garden table is not flat basically. Putting a spirit level on it, it rocks around and the first row has a fall towards the building. The restof the slabs fall in about 3 other directions.
    He's brushed off the loose sand now on the base which he said was to protect from frost. A nice summerhouse is going on the top.
    The reason he is still here is that the other half' was going to address it all at the end so he didn't walk off the job with our money. I know, we are old(68) and still make daft decisions. Now the other half is not here and the bloke wants all his money quick.
    Now I feel sorry for myself!
     
  4. Emanuel

    Emanuel Member

    "Fine gravelly ballast with sand was used but not sure what ratio." - why not ask him directly. Maybe he has a "special formula" to create the concrete, thus the colour. That's wishful thinking of course.;)
    You should call him and tell him about the colour of the concrete and about your concerns. Ask him to come and see it as well and don't leave him be until he gives you a proper explanation. Do this before paying the remaining money. He might be a "nice chap", but you might discover in a week that you have to build everything again.
     
  5. Penelopejean

    Penelopejean New Member

    I did ask him today and he's said 6 to 1. He says there's plenty of cement in there and he sprinkled some on the ground too. he's done dozens of them he says for 27yrs but still says to leave the shuttering on but then said we could take it off in a months time. In light of what he said about leaving it to rot I'm not sure we dare remove it.
     
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    There's no harm in leaving the shuttering to rot.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  7. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Any chance for a photo, if it looks dodgy then it's very likely to be.
     
  8. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Sounds like an utter cowboy to me, pay him nowt till you know it's ok.
     
  9. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    That's not always the case Dev's - had a professional landscaper to lay a path for me only 4m2. The guy made a complete mess and didn't know how to set the path at right angles to the house. In the end I paid him a substantial amount as was worried he may do something and he wasn't cheap either.
     
  10. seen it all before

    seen it all before Active Member

    He couldn't of been a professional landscaper if he made a mess of such a small job. Just because they drive round in posh new vans with glorious sign writing and pictures doesn't make them professional.
     
  11. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    The guy was a complete nightmare he wasn't in sign written van, he was on it for about 3-4 days. The path consisted of stone blocks measuring 100mm x 100mm.

    The path had been laid out of square by 3", which could be clearly seen with the eye, and the number of blocks run on each square wasn't symmetrical with the door, as he'd run an extra row down the side.

    Tried to get him to leave but just didn't want to go.
     
  12. seen it all before

    seen it all before Active Member

    Unfortunately there is a lot of people around like this, I mentioned vans and sign writing as a couple who I had to work for and refit a kitchen which had been fitted terribly by someone, gave me the response his van looked all new and nice and he was very clean.
     
  13. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    The guy even had the cheek to put up an advertising board in front of the green.

    An old English lady requested a wind break to be installed, and he got some 2x3" untreated timbers for the job, said he was only going to charge her £50 for it. Said he was doing it as a good deed.

    When I paid him, he started packing these timbers, which were laid in her garden in to the van. Not sure if she paid him, but I felt a bit responsible.
     
    seen it all before likes this.
  14. I know it ain't always the case.

    My comment was more a question than a statement, anyhoo. And was meant to be a bit sarcy to boot... :)
     
  15. Blimey, Pen :(.

    As you clearly know, the patio should simply have a gentle single slope away from the house. That ain't rocket science, and nor is it difficult to do - plenty DIYers do this sort of job each day, so for a supposed 'pro' to do it off-the-level is really pretty unforgivable.

    Please don't succumb to pressure to pay up for anything before you are absolutely happy with the work.

    Question - who is going to build the summer house on top? Please don't tell me it's him?

    We can't fully advise from this side of the screen, Pen, although some photographs might help (keep them below 2 MP in size).

    What would help for us to know is just how deep he went into the ground before laying down the hardcore. Is there any way you can find this out? Can you see at the sides how deep he went?

    Do you have any helpful neighbours of family near by - someone who could check these things out, and perhaps even be with you if you need to tackle this fellow (tho', of course, we don't know he's a complete cowboy yet...)

    Hopefully you have someone else in mind for building the actual summer house, so what I would do is call him out for a site survey asap. He should be able to tell if that slab is good enough - he certainly isn't going to want to build on anything that is going to fail.


    Any chance of this?
     
  16. Emanuel

    Emanuel Member

    Penelopejean, even if there was plenty of cement, there are a lot of places he could have gone wrong. You were saying that "One end where he started seems firm but other is soft." - maybe he didn't mix it well and that's way one part is good and the other is not.
    Anyway, this doesn't sound good and you should get somebody else to check as well (as other people suggested here). The main thing is: DON'T PAY HIM UNTIL YOU RESOLVE THIS.
     
  17. Yep.

    6:1 is fine for this kind of work - a concrete slab. But that, of course, doesn't mean his claim is true (Cue a cracking Elvis Costello song... :rolleyes: )

    But other things really worry me; he claims he poured sand over the slab to protect it from frost? Blimey - would anyone here pour sand over a freshly-laid concrete slab?! What a mess that would cause, surely?

    And the other thing is - why is he so obsessed with Pen keeping the shuttering in place for so long? A horrible thought came to me - could it be 'cos he doesn't want anyone to see how shallow the slab is?

    Pen, if you are not up to doing this sort of task yourself - removing a length of shuttering - then please find someone local who'll help you out.

    And please don't pay this guy until you are absolutely certain that slab is suitable.

    And please, please don't be intimidated by this guy; if he uses any level of implied threat or pressure, then he's absolute scum and needs to be challenged. Write down EVERYTHING he says and does, date and time it. And if there's any real 'threat' in it, then call your local bobby - honestly.

    Perhaps a solution to finding out if the slab is ok is to call out another builder, hopefully one that comes with a recommendation. Explain that you need a concrete base for a summer house, and you're not sure the one you have is strong enough. He'll come out and will assess that slab in seconds.

    I fear he may do a fair bit of whistling and sucking of air through teeth when he sees it.

    Or, fingers crossed, he'll say "No worries - that's fine."

    But you need to know, Penelope - from what you've told us, I doubt you can take this guy's word for it.

    Just imagine your lovely new summer house when the slab starts to crack and sink at different levels - your house will distort and doors will likely become difficult to open. You may even have gaps opening up. I have even seen windows break from the stress when old huts start to collapse. You need to be confident that this slab is up to the job before to spend money on the summer house.

    Where abouts are you?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2016
  18. Penelopejean

    Penelopejean New Member

    Thanks everyone for your advice and support. He and his wife did the patio and the mixing and laying for the slab. I don't know how thick or if any hard core went in. I didn't see any before it went in anyway. We only had a very small pile of concrete bits lying around that he says he put in there. My husband is not paying the rest till it's all done and we find that the base is set firm in 2 or 3 days. As for level and flatness I have no idea what to do about that as everywhere says it should be dead level. We haven't ordered it yet but the summerhouse is coming from far away from a different source thankfully.
    Can they adjust the bearers to the correct levelness?
    I've tried photos on here with no luck, sorry. But I don't think it would show the levels.
    Penny
     
  19. Penelopejean

    Penelopejean New Member

    Just read Devils' advocate post, sorry missed it while I answered the phone. No he's not threatening, rather the opposite but if we've challenged anything he keeps saying it's fine and not to worry but nevertheless keeps asks for payment now, not in a few days which is normal in my view. It all makes me feel a bit sick. I think he's living a hand to mouth life style.
    Good idea to ask a builder We have some proper builders coming on Tuesday to put a couple of roof steel beams in the garage roof.(That's another story) I will ask them what they think. Are we safe to remove the shuttering gently after say 5days? If he's said not to move it, we'll get no comeback if it collapses will we.
    Penny
     
  20. H' Penny.

    If you set your camera to, say, 3MP resolution, it should produce photos which are typically below 2MP - and that's the max size you can upload to this site. No, it won't show if it's level, but it might show us other details - like whether the surface is crumbly.

    You MUST find out what thickness that slab and hardcore is before you pay. And whether it has set properly due to lack of cement or frost damage (usually frost will only damage the top layer, but it still doesn't look nice...)

    If it is not thick or strong enough, then it will almost certainly move and crack over the next few years - and that will be bad news for your hoosie.

    The only way to check is to remove a piece of shuttering. You do this by tapping it downwards along its top with a hammer until you can see that it has separated from the concrete slab - you'll see a teeny tiny crack between them - it should be pretty obvious.

    Then remove it by taking out any wooden pegs in the ground that's holding it in place, a jobby jobbed. The slab will not collapse if you do this! (At least it shouldn't...) Just make sure no-one stands on the very edge of the slab for a few weeks.

    If necessary, then dig away just a few inches of soil in one place to expose the whole depth of the slab - measure and take a photo, please.

    Will the summer house peeps be able to compensate for a slightly out-of-level base? I should bludy hope so! But the people to ask are the guys who will be supplying and fitting that house - send them an email and ask what the slab requirements are. (Or give us a link to the manufacturer and we can check their site).

    There can be other issues here, tho' - if the slab has any 'hollows' in the surface, then rain water will 'pool' there and that's bad news if timber bearers are sitting at these points.

    Anyhoo - see if you can find out the depth and construction of your slab - what different layers have been used.
     

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