Small extension in progress, worried about brickwork - poor?! Please help!

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Lkw82, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    That's good re: foundations.
    Unfortunately the actual quality of the brickwork doesn't fall under building control as its not part of their inspections, these are foundations and roofing structure, the bit in the middle doesn't concern them.

    This though is quite possibly the worst brickwork I've seen on an extension, seen worse in garden walls often done by landscapers who are not builders, is your guy a landscaper :D:D:D:D:D:D.

    The cracked section in the pic I listed is your armour in having it taken down and replaced, this whole section of brickwork is unstable and unsafe, try and get the building control officer to agree with you as back up in approaching the builder.

    What ever you do, do not allow the builder to continue working on it until its rectified, the further in he goes the harder it will be for you.

    The wall plate doesn't look good either as in not having a full cement bed under it, it should also be strapped down, this may be yet to be done?.
     
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Are there any wall ties between the bricks and blocks if so are they every 450mm apart and on every 6th brick course, if not this could help in getting it taken down.
     
  3. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    There are wall ties but not sure how far apart they are. Thank you for your reply and help. Like you say the crack is indicative of a major issue and more than enough of a problem just on its own :-(
     
  4. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    I haven't even shown you the picture of the lintel and the brick wedged in the gap underneath it where it didn't meet the breeze block
     
  5. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    :eek::eek::eek:
     
  6. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    :eek::eek:

    It's not difficult getting levels, but really that is very poor.

    Think the whole lot should be flattened!:)
     
  8. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    You need to check as KIAB suggested how the block is tied into the brick, if it isn't that would be great as you could ask for BC to appear show the wall isn't structurally tied and not weatherproof due to the gaps and have it taken down and then you could get a tidy builder in.
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  9. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    There were definitely ties in the wall but the top one was missing on one side so 6 courses with no tie.
     
  10. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    A tidy builder sounds pretty good to me :-(
     
  11. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    I agree on what others have said. Dont let the builder anwhere near your property! STOP!!!!

    You definitely need someone who can at least build properly! If it were me i would be knocking it all down. Standard of work is absolutely terrible.

    For those with more experience, can one get some authority to check the work / condemn it?
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  12. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    yes it would be good if we could find out who we would ask to come check in person/provide a report etc? We are based in Leeds
     
  13. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    Look up RICS website and get a building surveyor to price for a visit and to letter/short report on the standard of work/failings
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  14. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Contact building control at your local council, they can send out a building inspector to view the work.
    It is a offence not to comply with building regulations.
    Also get a indepent report from a building surveyor to back up your case.
     
  15. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    thank you I'm calling him now. Thank you so much everyone, really appreciate your help.
     
  16. Hi Lkw.

    Hellish situation, and a shame it's been allowed to get this far - that makes it more difficult.

    Is that shoddy brickwork? Yes - very. That is not the work of a pro brickie or even a competent apprentice. It is not difficult to get brickwork looking good; it chust takes a lot more time when you are new to it. A pro will get it looking good and do it quickly. A newbie will get it looking good - but take a loooong time. This guy ain't even at newbie stage.

    Here's where it gets tricky... Will this shoddy work cause any actual structural issues in time? Probably not. And, if all the correct building procedures have been followed - wall starter strips, wall ties etc - then it's very unlikely to cause issues.

    All the remaining 'building' issues such as missing mortar etc can be sorted (although it obviously shouldn't have occurred in the first place). Even daft things like levels being out and lintels needing more packing than they should are all sortable. (Again, tho', it shouldn't have come to this...)

    So, really, we are mainly talking aesthetics - is the appearance acceptable?

    Personally, I'd say definitely not. These are nice rustic bricks and contribute hugely to the overall appearance of the building. Such shoddy workmanship detracts from this - it will always be an eyesore and a bone of contention. Anyone visiting to see your new extension will be cringing inside...

    Warning bells clearly sounded when they had to redo a whole section of wall due to it being even worse than this work! And their second attempt was 2" out of level!

    There is no learning from these guys - they are chancers. At that first stage they should have replaced the brickie with a pro. But they didn't. That gives the measure of the guys who are working for you.

    Let's be clear about one thing - these guys KNOW it's a rubbish standard of work. They know. But they are hoping to have improved enough to get away with it.

    What a shame you let it get this far, because the solution for these builders is now a much bigger task (yes, there's only one solution - take it down and start again.)

    But don't expect them to say "Fair do's - no prob." when you tackle them on this, tho'. They will moan and argue and insist it's good enough and it's gone on too far and it'll cost you more and it'll eat into their schedule and other stuff like this ('cos they are not 'pros' and are not behaving like 'pros').

    The one massive lever you have over them is payment, of course - so please tell us they have only been paid for the groundwork :)

    What can we say for certain?

    1) They are not using a good quality brickie. He's already had to redo some work because it was even worse than this. He hasn't improved enough and they are still using him. He is simply not up to the job.

    2) Structurally things are probably going to be ok (provided they've used all the techniques they should have - ties etc).

    3) Unless someone can find structural flaws in the build, then your issue is aesthetics. Which is fine - it HAS to look good. And it simply doesn't.

    You need a sit down with the boss. Keep calm. Explain it all clearly - you regret you cannot accept this standard of brickwork. End of. It does need to be redone.

    Let him rant a bit - and then repeat the above.

    If he asks 'why didn't you say anything sooner'?! Just reply that you shouldn't have to - the work should automatically be carried out to a good, professional standard and not "Is this good enough now?!" Remind him that his brickie has already had to redo work that even he knew was complete pants and that even the rebuilt part was 2" out of level! You hoped - and were generously prepared to allow - that his third attempt would be satisfactory. But it isn't. They know this and you know this.

    End of.

    It needs rebuilding - with a new brickie at the helm. The only alternative to this is that they move off the job with no further payment and you'll get someone else to do it (assuming you ain't going to lose out signification by doing this?).
     
    Lkw82 and KIAB like this.
  17. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    Thank you for taking time to respond! The work has been over the last 2 weeks. I appreciate when you are saying about 'letting it get this far' but during the building of the wall I have raised issues of the cracks/mortar/original dwarf wall being loose/bricks failing off (luckily some in writing as well) etc during this time to the builder and was advised 'it would all be sorted by pointing'. On Thursday I was advised the brick wedged under the lintel and above the breezeblock would be sorted. On Friday I saw that this meant a bit of mortar/cement had been stuck around it (again not very well either). Since then the brickie has left site and I presume finished his work - the cracks are still there, the bricks are still loose, the wall still looks very poor etc.

    The wall which went up at the end of last week was not level to the eye at all and I immediately raised my concerns to the boss as they were on site. That is when alarm bells started ringing (if this isn't level what other problems are there??) and we started fully investigating all the walls. Until this point we had no reason to question anything and the wall has literally only just gone up during last week.

    We are not willing to let them continue work as like you say they have allowed this work to be done so poorly first time (and second time round). It is a very small company and I do not have any faith they would/could find a better builder.

    Obviously we don't know they have used all the techniques they should have - if the wall is not level my concern would be that they are absolutely not skilled enough for the work and so I can only presume structurally this will not be sound. The cracks between the old wall and new certainly raise concerns with us. My husband is calling the building inspector now to come and inspect. Obviously he is only concerned about foundations etc but this is the path that the surveyor we called has advised us to take in the first instance.

    We will not lose out financially as we have not paid in advance etc. We just want it to be done right as it is our family home. There are live electrics out there covered with parcel tape and we have small children so need it resolving as soon as possible.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  18. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Building inspector:)

    If the builder doing the building work contravenes the Building Regulations, the local authority may prosecute them in the Magistrates' Court where an unlimited fine may be imposed (sections 35 and 35A of the Building Act 1984).
    There is also section 36 of the 1984 Act as well, unlikely that would be used.
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  19. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    I guess there is a big difference between 'compliance' and a good level of workmanship. Either way we cant accept it
     
  20. You haven't paid them anything?! Phew - that's great :)

    You should know what to do following the BCO's visit. Yes, he's concerned with 'compliance' but I'm sure can be persuaded to give an opinion on the quality of work too, "off the record" if necessary.

    Most BCO's are decent and are doing the best they can so will be genuinely helpful. They also want to build up a picture of builders they can 'trust' more than others, so they know in advance just how much probing they need to do when called out on a visit.

    You can ask him (again say 'off the record' if they seem reluctant to say anything) if they know of this builder and what their reputation is.

    I think you'll know what to do after this visit. I hope the BCO is helpful*.

    You, in turn, need to ensure you do things properly as regards your current builder. I suspect you simply want shot of them, but you need to do this properly.

    Have the sit down chat with the boss - a cup of tea is always good. Explain the situation. Let him speak and get a gist of where you think things are with him - see how reasonable he's being.

    Then explain the bottom line - it needs rebuilding either by them or you'll get someone else. If they wish to have a final attempt at putting this right, then you'll allow it - but only with a new and experienced brickie. You will NOT accept the current guy - he's had more than enough chances and you have no confidence in him (and can easily justify this should it come to a court case).

    Whatever route he chooses, you put it in writing to confirm that you are covered - you'll allowed this final opportunity employing a new brickie or, they refuse to redo it and you are terminating their contract - whichever it is.

    Don't, whatever you do, leave yourself in a position where they could sue you by not allowing them the right opportunities to put things right. This is why the ultimatum needs to be in writing - or else they could turn around and claim they offered to sort it but you chust wouldn't allow them. And they could win this...

    Get advice from the CAB website or visit your local branch - they'll tell you how to word things.

    Keep us posted :)



    (*We had the BCO come out to look at an internal wall that needed to come down. He confirmed it was structural and that we'd need an SE. "Can you recommend any?" I asked. "Sorry, no - I can't do recommendations." "Fair enough - do you know of any locally, then?" "Yes..." and he named two...)
     

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