Small extension in progress, worried about brickwork - poor?! Please help!

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Lkw82, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Builder might have a history of bad workmanship.:rolleyes:
     
  2. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    Building inspector confirmed work was shoddy and if it was his house he would want all the brickwork re doing.

    I am really concerned about giving the company another shot at it though, I have no reason so far to think they would find anyone better but if this is the only way forward to cover ourselves legally then I guess we have no choice.
     
  3. Have a word with CAB.

    It used to be that you were supposed to give a tradespeep three attempts to sort out their work. I understand this is no longer the case - provided you have reasonable cause to refuse them because of, say, dangerous work, a complete breakdown in relations (if they become aggressive or abusive, for instance) etc.

    It's all designed to be fair and reasonable to both parties. And amen to that.

    So I'd suggest that you get some proper legal advice (CAB - even by phone; they are great) and then have a sit-down with the boss of this company. You really should have this meeting witnessed (I'm not sure a sound/video recording is acceptable instead?)

    It will likely come down to the guy's response - a genuine 'pro' builder, even if a newbie but one who has every intention of doing things right and gaining a good reputation, will be contrite and apologetic and will acknowledge your concerns and will then do the best they can to convince you that he will sort this. If they are bolshie or belligerent or stubborn or not accepting that it's of sub-standard quality, then you know what you are dealing with. And it ain't a pro... Part of any 'deal' to allow them back will have to be a new brickie as you can for certain claim that the current guy is not up to the task and you can refuse to have them.

    Explain it's that - or a termination of the contract.

    You then put this in writing to him (recorded delivery or witnessed 'by hand'). He has a week to acknowledge/respond.

    Then you should be able to move on. Either way.

    A point, tho' - if you terminate their contract, you will likely be left with an extra bill from the next lot to first demolish what's been built...
     
  4. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    Thank you! I will contact them. 3 bricks have fallen off this morning already so I reckon demolition would be quite a small bill
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  5. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Keep you kids well away the the work.
     
  7. The quicker you get it down the better so that the bricks will clean up.
    The cement should still be quite green and not too hard to get off the bricks and blocks hopefully.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  8. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    Building inspector said the block work inside was ok and structurally seemed ok so that can stay but needs tidying up. Just the brickwork which needs redoing. I just can't imagine where they will get a good bricklayer from as it's a small company.
     
  9. Every builder knows a few different trades peeps. There will almost certainly be free-lancing brickies in your area, or ones that can be sub-contracted from another company for a few days.

    The whole point is - YOU need to sort this properly so as not to leave yourself liable.

    So you NEED to get legal advice (CAB) and you NEED to have this sit-down chat with the boss.

    THEN you will KNOW what to do.

    Chances are, it'll then be pretty obvious...
     
  10. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Dont pay anyone a penny. Great that you have not payed anything up front.

    Maybe try and source a recommended brickie but remembering that the good uns are always busy! If it were me i would terminate contract with the builder and source another which is recommended.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  11. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    Get a Building Surveyor to prepare a short report on the standard of work, and failings a nd budget remedial costs and at least you have credible , unbiased professional evidence of a poor job. Easier to bin your "builder" for incompetence, and easier to figure out what if anything he is owed as this may take a while to bring to an end.
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  12. This is the point I am trying to get across; we all know the current work isn't acceptable. The builder might not acknowledge that fact at the moment, but it can certainly be proved to him it's the case.

    However, it is not enough to simply show the work is rubbish and "You're fired!". If he happened to be a half-decent builder, genuinely concerned about his reputation, then he'd want to put things right, and would be prepared to employ a different brickie. You have GOT to allow him this opportunity.

    If he says, "Nope it's fine - I'll get my brickie to redo the bad bits..." then you need that recorded before you can say - Offski with you..."

    The risk is, if he's a chancer, a belligerent arrisol, and you don't give him the chance to properly sort it (ie - if you say "The work ain't good enough - clear orf, contract terminated), then he can argue he wasn't given the proper opportunity to put things right. He could sue you in theory (as you could sue him if it went t'other way) claiming he was about to employ a top-notch brickie but you didn't give him the chance...

    So, get the boss sat down and talk it through. You know what your bottom line is (redo external skin by new brickie (and any other bits...)) and you need to allow him to say Yea or Nay. If Nay, note this down and put in writing why you are terminating the contract and give him one weeks to respond positively.

    Then you can show you have been reasonable.

    But seek CAB advice to confirm, and to use correct lingo.
     
  13. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    CAB will tell you to get an expert opinion
     
  14. You may be right.

    I suspect, tho', that realistically all Lkw needs from CAB is the correct legal approach to take so they don't fall foul of the 'law' and get stitched up by the builder. I don't think Lkw needs expert opinions to 'prove' anything about the standard of work - it's writ large in these photos as well as the record they have of the first attempts.

    If it comes down to a court case, it'll be Lkw's photographic and written evidence against the builder's counter-claim. I don't think there's any risk of the builder trying that on.

    As long as Lkw fulfils their obligations - giving the builder a fair and written ultimatum - they should be on safe ground.

    But, point taken.

    I guess they'll know once they talk to the builder. They will know what they are dealing with.
     
  15. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    I've prepared many of these. It takes away the nonsense from disputes and cuts to the chase in an informed way. The builder has the option then to respond via his own surveyors report/schedule and a settlement can be reached.

    Nobody really wants to go to court and litigation should never be the starting point of a dispute.
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  16. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Any builder who employs a brickie with that standard of work cannot call himself a pro builder.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  17. Lkw82

    Lkw82 Member

    ok given the builder a fair and written ultimatum. They are on the hunt for a new brickie. No apology but no denial of poor workmanship either so I suppose that is something.
     
  18. Cool - so it is all recorded and you have shown yourself to be very fair-minded and reasonable.

    If it still goes pear-shaped (tho' hopefully it won't) then it'll be as obvious as an obvious thing to an arbitrator who is being fair and reasonable here.

    Good luck, and good on you for allowing them a final chance.

    Chances are it'll be fine now. And it'll be a good result for the builder too. He might even recognise this at the end of the job... :rolleyes:

    (Until then it looks as tho' his manly pride won't allow him to be contrite...)
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  19. Tell them not to go to Wickes car park this time for the Bricklayer.
     
    Lkw82 likes this.
  20. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Good you got pics of everything too. Obviously you have told them you want it re-built?
     
    KIAB likes this.

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