Steel column v brick piers

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by mo786, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. mo786

    mo786 New Member

    I am currently going through a major rennovation... so now is a good time to do stuff I might not be able to in the future.

    To cut a long story short... I have 2 steels in my house supporting the first floor. One is bolted into the party wall and one is built onto a block wall. In the middle where they meet and overlap is a concrete wall.

    The steel that is bolted to the party wall is an old one and had to be left there are that is how the house was built and the engineer didn't want to take it out - I understand its a bit of an odd practice in terms of how it was built. The bolts are quite meaty but at the end of the day its just 2 bolts holiding up one half of the house.

    Anyway, we want to put in an additional support underneath just incase it ever fails.

    I've been offered a steel colum or brick pier.

    Steel has advantage of potentially being thinner and easier to hide/box in. I expect of of course it should be rock solid in the event the bolts fail and it has to take the load of the structural steel.

    I can also see the advantage of a pier as I imagine they can take a lot of weight when weight is bearing down on them.

    To complicate matters (and to keep it short) I am also thinking of putitng supprt on the other side as well which is the block wall (the steel is sat on a lintel at the top of the wall). For this the builder has suggested building a brick pier in front of the wall but actually connected to the wall. The downside to this is that if the block wall ever went then the pier would go with it, whereas if I go for a steel it will be independent of the wall.

    Is it basically a case of they roughly do the same job so no big deal in choosing one over the other?

    I understand the steels can be had for £100 odd each so cost is not a major factor and buying bricks and payign a bricklayer will amount to a simialr amount anyway I suspect.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Either or will do, just make sure which ever you choose has a solid foundation to stand on, this is more important than the pier its self.
     
  3. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Done same job, where the building inspector want addiontal foundations, just bolting the steel to the floor wasn't acceptable, ended digging up floor & putting in a 3' foundation for them.:mad::(
     
  4. Hi Mo.

    Oooh - decisions decisions.

    Steel column. Y'know it makes sense :).

    For all the reasons you, yourself, have given :D
     
  5. And what would a brick column have needed?
     
  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    I dread to think, had thought about going down to 6'6" & burying the building inspector at the same time.:)
     
  7. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    Not just me then, that has had this idea. :p:p:p
     
  8. mo786

    mo786 New Member

    The house in on a concrete slab and we did a test hole which was 8 inches (not in the area where either post/pier will go) - we can assume it is 8inches throughout but who knows.

    I am reasonably confident the slab will take it as it was the base for an old hosue and the blockwork was built on this foundation rather than a new one.

    As these items are additional to what the structural egineer specified I am nto sure if building control will care. He did specificy we dig down a certain amoutn of the concrete wall i nthe centre which supports both steels but of course that is taking BOTH steels and it is the main support whereas in the other 2 areas its backup - but it makes sense to put in a solid foundation fo cours.e

    Out of interest can they pack it so the secodnary support immediatley acts as a support or is it a case of get it as close as you can to the steel and if the first one fails and the steel drops then it goes onto the second?
     
  9. Tsk - you are beginning to sound like a bona fide cowboy... :rolleyes:
     
    KIAB likes this.
  10. mo786

    mo786 New Member

    Why is that?

    Firstly I am not a tradesman charging anyone.

    Secondly I am not doing the work msyelf.

    The reasons for my questions were so I am better informed to ask questions when talking to builders/building control - have I suggested anywhere doing anything unsafe?
     
    KIAB likes this.
  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Wish more people were like you.
    At least you understand what is involved with the required work,being better informed is a good thing, you then know/ understand what to expect, & not how to get ripped off.
     
  12. Hi Mo'.

    My 'cowboy' remark - partly tongue-in-cheek - was based on your previous post:

    "...we can assume it is 8inches throughout but who knows.

    I am reasonably confident the slab will take it as it was the base for an old hosue and the blockwork was built on this foundation rather than a new one.

    As these items are additional to what the structural egineer specified I am not sure if building control will care. He did specific we dig down a certain amount of the concrete wall i nthe centre which supports both steels but of course that is taking BOTH steels and it is the main support whereas in the other 2 areas its backup - but it makes sense to put in a solid foundation of course

    Out of interest can they pack it so the secondary support immediately acts as a support or is it a case of get it as close as you can to the steel and if the first one fails and the steel drops then it goes onto the second?"



    Are you planning to just sit this beam on the 8" concrete floor, or are you definitely going to give it additional foundations?

    Do you think a system of two separate beams where if one fails then the structure will drop down on to the next beam - which will hopefully not fail - is a good one?

    As I said - "joking in earnest"...
     

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