Tenant says water does not last as long since plumber replaced immersion heater

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014.

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  1. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    We had an electrical fault on the immersion heater circuit that caused the RCCB to cut out and so I asked a plumber to replace the immersion heater. The old one heated fine but since the new one was fitted the tenant is complaining that there is not enough hot water. My plumber says that older immersion heaters used to be set at a higher temperature and so the water would have lasted longer before it started to run cooler. The local plumber said he has replaced the immersion heater and it works fine and to just igonore the tenant. My tenant is adament that there is now not enough hot water even after having the timer on for two hours. Is there anything I can do to make my tenant happy as she pays her rent on time every month and I want to keep her happy. Incidently the original electrical fault was traced to wiring.
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #1
  2. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Could be the plumber has replaced the old immersion with one that's a bit shorter and less Kw. ;);)
     
    joinerjohn1, Feb 10, 2014
    #2
  3. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    The plumber assures me that it was was a side entry and an 11" that he took out and replaced with the same and it was also a 3 Kw. He said if it was replaced with a 14" one it would still make little no difference to the heat up time. I will will get the name of the 450mm diameter tank though and see what is fitted as standard when new. Thanks for your help.
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #3
  4. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    what temperature is/was the stat set at ?
     
    Sean_ork, Feb 10, 2014
    #4
  5. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Sean, It is set at 60 deg C
    Many Thanks
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #5
  6. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    if its an 11 inch element, its fitted at the bottom, so the whole of the tank/cylinder will get warm/hot. you cannot iomprove on that, but you could turn the stat up, its probably because the old emmesion was knackered and overheating thats give the tenant the idea its not as hot,
     
    tom.plum, Feb 10, 2014
    #6
  7. Russ the Plumber

    Russ the Plumber Member

    Hi Trev

    I am a landlord myself and I do work for a local letting management agency.

    Have your plumber ask the tenant how they actually "use" the water, get a feel for what they expect and how it can effect the issue.

    For instance, you mention a 450 dia tank is it 950mm high or 1050? Is the element in the lower half of the tank and/or as I suspect are they using an electric only tank (i.e. no boiler) and the heater is on a white meter with peak boost

    There are many issues that need to be gone through before a definitive answer can be arrived at.

    It may even be tenant opportunism, you make a change gives them a chance to complain?

    So lets start with first things first

    can you take a picky and post it here? Is it electric heated only or is it also connected to a boiler?

    Hope this helps

    Russ

    www.iiplumbing-services-derby.co.uk
     
    Russ the Plumber, Feb 10, 2014
    #7
  8. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Tom, Your right, it's fitted at the bottom. The stat is under the new legislation though and it will not go higher than 60+ deg C. It's more of the volume as the temp before it starts to quickly run cool is fine. Unless the new thermostat is faulty. I will try the temp at the taps tomorow with a thermometer. I will also try to check what happens if it is left heating for 3 hours if I can get the tenant not to use any hot water during the test so that it is not cooled down again. Thanks Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #8
  9. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Russ,

    I'll take a pic when I go up there tomorow. No, it's just heated by the immersion heater as there is no gas supply in the street. I only know the diameter at the mo but I'll check the height tomorow. I can say it's a fortic tank as there is no head room in the loft for a cold tank. It is heated in the day by a boost timer that goes up to 120 minutes and a possibility of economy 7 at night, and the tenant says that the economy 7 makes little difference to the volume of hot water. I can't check the economy 7 due to the timing so I have to reply on what she says regarding that. Thanks Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #9
  10. Russ the Plumber

    Russ the Plumber Member

    Ask the tenant if they like "big baths" (full of water)
     
    Russ the Plumber, Feb 10, 2014
    #10
  11. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Russ, She said she can get two half baths after 4+ hours of heating. Thanks Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #11
  12. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Ahh, so she only "half washes" herself then?? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
    joinerjohn1, Feb 10, 2014
    #12
  13. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    And I suppose that if the old immersion was faulty, it could have been releasing hot water into the header, hence refilling with warm, and warm water heats more quickly than cold! Now, with proper working heater, filling is cold always(longer heating, less hot water) ?

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
    Mr. Handyandy, Feb 10, 2014
    #13
  14. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Ha ha. Nice one John, only dirty people take a bath anyway and so at one bath per week I'm really clean!

    I have just e-mailed and asked her if the full bath of water is at the correct temperature becuase if it is then I can't see how she can get much more than 100L
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #14
  15. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Andy, That's a thought but how would I convince her that in future a full bath or 100Ltr of water will normally take 4 hours to get hot enough. Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #15
  16. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Don't economy 7 tanks normally have two immersion heaters, the lower one for economy 7 and one half way up for boosting if more hot water needed during the day, that's what's in my daughters flat, that's electric only.
     
    Phil the Paver, Feb 10, 2014
    #16
  17. Russ the Plumber

    Russ the Plumber Member

    Use the equation phi=M(dot)CP delta T

    Where phi is the kw rating of the heater (3000w)
    m(dot) is the mass flow of the water (in this case 100l)
    CP is the specific heat capacity of water (4.2j/kgdegC)
    and Delta t is the temperature rise required (mains cold water temp of say 10deg to 60 degC being 50)

    get your units right (which I can never do) and that is how long it takes to heat 100 litres of water from 10-60degc
     
    Russ the Plumber, Feb 10, 2014
    #17
  18. Russ the Plumber

    Russ the Plumber Member

    A point I was trying to get to Phil, you beat me!

    Get the coils connected the wrong way round and you get little hot water

    My friend had an unvented hot water heater fitted up the wrong way round and he had the same prob
     
    Russ the Plumber, Feb 10, 2014
    #18
  19. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    No this one has always used just one heater with the suply contolled bt the switch from day boost to nght econ 7. Thanks Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #19
  20. TrevofHucknall

    TrevofHucknall New Member

    Hi Russ, Should it be 50 minutes to heat up to 60deg from 10 deg? Thanks Trev
     
    TrevofHucknall, Feb 10, 2014
    #20
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