I've been having this conversation with someone else recently and although Travis Parrkins is an extreme why would you expect a tradesman to pass his discount onto the customer? I run a bathroom installation business which part of the profit is derived from supplying the suite and fixtures and fittings such as tiles. It's this profit that allows me to operate providing insurance, being VAT registeres, providing Part P certification for any electrics, corgi registered engineers where required. Without this part of the profit my business doesn't operate. Yrt people constantly expect me to pass my trade discount onto them and seem to get offended when I don't. Now, I also run a second business importing Marble and limestone, I buy it in mark it up and sell it. I don't discount for any other reason than volume, i.e. I'll not charge the same per sq/m for a 50sq/m order as I would for a 500 sq/m order. Now people don't expect a discount on this product, even though in a lot of cases we supply and fit. So where did this expectation come from? Care to enlighten me? Mudster, You are quite entitled to keep the discount you get, but not every tradesman is as clean as you are, running a business like yours is different than employing someone on a hourly rate! The one plumber we used did not even pay any taxes. He was being paid a hourly rate. In a lot of cases the sheds offer far better value than Travis Perkins. When plumbers for example are being paid a hourly rate and turn up for work, having 5 tea breaks and purporting to be your friend and then say " I'll get you a good deal on a bathroom suite, it's not the cheapest but it is excellent quality, I will even take you to pick it". They should point out to that customer that they will get a 50% discount on that price (which they keep).IMO A few of the plumbers that I now know pass on the savings to their customers, this tends to stop them doing it themselves as in some cases the discount pays for the job to be done. I have seen your website (the AT stone one), I found a link to it in the TT forum. Your site is very good! [Edited by: admin]
Our general gripe is more guided towards the fact that Joe Public can walk into a plumbing merchant/bathroom showroom and walk out with the same discount and sometimes better then trade. This only seems to happen in the construction industry. Even if you employ a guy cash on an hourly rate, I still fail to see why you feel entitled to his discount at a merchant. The guy gets the discount because He obviously puts a lot of custom their way, the merchant, by giving him a discount is in a way paying him commission and thanking him for him for pushing the business his way. Yet you still feel that the commission for this sale should be yours as the customer because you're employing the guy? I see no right to this at all.
Our general gripe is more guided towards the fact that Joe Public can walk into a plumbing merchant/bathroom showroom and walk out with the same discount and sometimes better then trade. This only seems to happen in the construction industry. Even if you employ a guy cash on an hourly rate, I still fail to see why you feel entitled to his discount at a merchant. The guy gets the discount because He obviously puts a lot of custom their way, the merchant, by giving him a discount is in a way paying him commission and thanking him for him for pushing the business his way. Yet you still feel that the commission for this sale should be yours as the customer because you're employing the guy? I see no right to this at all. I have a friend that has an off licence, when they go to the cash and carry it is full of their customers that are plumbers,electricians,builders etc. Should they be allowed to buy alcohol at the same price that my friend buys it at? So it does not just happen in the construction industry! I work for a large firm that has a code of ethics, I get paid a salary, If I were to negotiate a deal with some customers or suppliers where I benefitted in some way I would be fired immediately! I get paid the salary and that is a fair wage and I don't expect to make anymore by doing something outside of the scope of work that I am paid for! I had a full house drylined about 6 years ago. I got quotes from all the sheds for the materials and the price was around £500, then a friend suggested a dry lining company so I got a quote off them. I told them that I was prepared to do the work myself and that I had a quote from the sheds etc and a specialist supplier in the next town. With the massive discount that they got they managed to do the lot including materials for less than I could buy the materials for myself! Had they have kept the discount themselves they would not have got the work as it would not have been economical for me to employ them! I was happy because I didn't have to do the work and they were more than happy because they got paid, the suppliers were happy- everyone was happy and I got their discount passed on to me, which in my opinion is fair. If they didn't want the work they could have priced themselves out of the market! There could be quite a lot of money involved here, if it was a reasonable discount that the tradesman was getting such as 10% or 15% then I wouldn't give a damn if he kept it but when I have been in TP, with my friend who is a plumber and he has been given discounts of between 40% and 60% then it is clearly not fair. IMO ultimatehandyman
I have a friend that has an off licence, when they go to the cash and carry it is full of their customers that are plumbers,electricians,builders etc. Should they be allowed to buy alcohol at the same price that my friend buys it at? So it does not just happen in the construction industry! Absolutely, here is another example of when it's unreasonable that people are getting the same discount as a wholsaler, but there's another layer to that particluar argument, your friends customers could go to France and buy it at less than the off licence storekeeper, even more unfair because the storekeeper can't buy it and resell from France. I work for a large firm that has a code of ethics, I get paid a salary, If I were to negotiate a deal with some customers or suppliers where I benefitted in some way I would be fired immediately! I get paid the salary and that is a fair wage and I don't expect to make anymore by doing something outside of the scope of work that I am paid for! Yes, you have a contract of employment, if you appropriate your companies goods or services and offer these at a reduced rate to customers direct you are breaking a contract, and in extremem circumstances this would be theft, not even the same conversation. I had a full house drylined about 6 years ago. I got quotes from all the sheds for the materials and the price was around £500, then a friend suggested a dry lining company so I got a quote off them. I told them that I was prepared to do the work myself and that I had a quote from the sheds etc and a specialist supplier in the next town. With the massive discount that they got they managed to do the lot including materials for less than I could buy the materials for myself! Had they have kept the discount themselves they would not have got the work as it would not have been economical for me to employ them! So you've got a large enough job to place an order with a commercial company and you've cut out the retailler, this is different to buying single bath suite because the size of the order changes the buying power. I was happy because I didn't have to do the work and they were more than happy because they got paid, the suppliers were happy- everyone was happy and I got their discount passed on to me, which in my opinion is fair. If they didn't want the work they could have priced themselves out of the market! There could be quite a lot of money involved here, if it was a reasonable discount that the tradesman was getting such as 10% or 15% then I wouldn't give a damn if he kept it but when I have been in TP, with my friend who is a plumber and he has been given discounts of between 40% and 60% then it is clearly not fair. IMO I deal with property developers, some of these people will be building 5 large houses in one go and can be buying 1000 sq/m of marble and limestone from me in one order, the six of the order dictates the price, in fact at this size they could cut me out (the importer) and go to the quarry direct but it's difficult to handle the quantity and store it here. The bottom line is, I will sell to these people at less than I sell wholesale, is that fair? yes of course it is, because it's an enourmous order, so say one of their house purchasers likes the marble so much they';d like to do their kitchen floor as well and want another 10 sq/m, would I sell this 10sq/m to them at the same price? Of course I wouldn't that would be unreasonable
Ask your self this. You get me to supply and fit a bathroom suite for you. Three months later there is a problem. Which is the first number you dial? The manufacturer or me? All parts are under guarantee from the manufacturer but the initial responsibility will be down to the installer to come and check if it's his error or a part has failed in which case he will usually take on the job of liasing with the manufacturer to arrange replacement in order to keep the customer happy. This is one of the reasons it is reasonable to make a profit on supplied parts. It allows a company to give a professional level of after care that would not be possible on a labour only job.
What amazes me is that TP own City Plumbing. Local to me there is both a City Plumbing and a TP H&P Centre within about 500yrds of each other. City will always give a much better price and service compared to Travis. I don't have an account but when I go there I tend to be buying more than your average DIY'er. I try and get everything in bulk at the beginning of the job, and if it means getting too many parts (if that's possible!) then the discount more than makes up for it. I now have a big box of spares so those last minute trips to B&Q on a Sunday afternoon don't happen so often now. I don't think it's unreasonable for a DIY/Non account holder to get a decent discount if they buy large(ish) quantites.
Agreed, but these places will discount to Joe Public buying say two bathroom suites for thier new house at the same rate as a bathroom business buying 20 suites a year. Not sensible, My average account at my plumbers merchant is around £5000 a month, so thats nearly £60,000 from one guy buying through them, I've lost the last three jobs I've quoted for through them offering the same discount directly to the customer. I've been through the conversation with them and was basically told, it's tough what are you going to do about,I closed my account there and then and opened a new one with one of their competitors. Sooner or later the message will sink in, you can't **** people of that spend that much money in your business.
All you have to do is vote with your feet/cash. If you are a big spender or even a smalltime bod then you get to know where your best at and shop there its as simple as that. Everyone in this world is out to make or save money and if you are getting ripped of then go elsewhere, at the end of the day its YOUR money so spend it wisely young man or as I was told by god f* that it to dear!!!!!
Mudster - no-one's arguing that a tradesman should not make a reasonable markup on the price he pays for materials. However, some factors in the building trades add on a significant markup so thay can offer an excessive discount. It allows some traders to cheat their customers by pretending their labour rates are low. Of course, customers should get more quotes to avoid this. A recent example. I'm building a house. I need some lintels, but I'm not in the building trade so I get quotes from builders merchants. Jewsons says they'll give me 60% off IG's trade price. Total £930. Travis Perkins quoted Catnic, total £700. Keystone are under £500. All for the same thing (except Catnic, which are better quality). You can, of course, gett a measure of what's reasonable by comparing prices with Screwfix. What is the point of discounts of 60% to 80% other than to be a party to a rip-off of people who trust the first price they are given? Tradesmen should get a discount to compensate for the time ordering, the aggro etc. Something around the 10% to 20% at most.
just goes to show doesnt it, Travis Perkins £700 Keystone £500 They are the same company as are City Plumbing ,Wickes and many others. How can one branch of a company survive when its sister is undercutting them .
I've never said don't shop around, and I agree that tradesmen should get a discount on the titmes they are supplying, I just don't think it's reasonable that Je Public gets teh same discount, and if he doesn't expects Mr Tradesman to get it and pass it on. I also happen to agree with you that both Jewson and Travis Perkins over inflate prices, but this is a free market economy, and they can charge what they like, I choose to shop in neither.
Travis perkins today announced a 10% drop in profits, blaming 'the lack of people doing DIY'.... really, no other reason ?
I remeber being in Wickes a few months ago when Travis Perkins took them over. A lad was going around putting all the prices up by about 10- 20%. Robbing bar-stewards. TripLock
I have an account with TP and regularly used to complain to the branch manager about B and Q undercutting their prices - even on stuff they have in "special offer" I have even handed stuff back on the basis that the ticket price is too high! Hence they finally worked out what makes me tick...... I now make sure I know exactly what I'm paying from them, all my tickets have the prices on them. Often the manager knocks money off them before they get added to my account! I even got 2 slightly damaged bags of sand and a bag of 20mm to dust given to me, these were split 1 tonne bags that I picked up in the trailer. CC
Never, ever go anywhere where the price varies depending on the mood of the bloke behind the counter. Guaranteed to wipe the smile from your face.
I bought two bags of mortar from Travis Perkins at a cost of £14.89 each including VAT. I have since seen exactly the same product selling for £6.79 including VAT at Wickes and £6.00 including VAT at B.& Q., or £5.40 if you use the club card discount on a Wednesday. I could accept paying a little more, but two a half times the price is basically robbery. I later queried the price at the same Travis Perkins store and was told "I just work here mate" The conclusion is; lousy pricing and lousy customer service. It's far too easy to find a much better alternative, that is what I am doing.
99.9% of builder merchants are rip off. Got trade account with several builder merchants, seldom use them, as I can get most things cheaper in Wickes & online elsewhere. Use to have a brilliant family run merchant nearby,sadly gone like many small independent merchants, all gobbled up by TP,Jewsons & others.
Funnily enough I was commenting the other day, how much more I am buying at Wickes these days mainly due to the prices and the cash back and they are off course open at more convenient times than my builders merchants. The only thing I buy from them are the big bags of sand /aggregate and large volume of blocks. As you say some of the trade cards are a joke - even with my Tradepoint card things are still more expensive in B&Q than a general customer gets in Wickes
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