UPVC back door unlocking without key

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Steveg, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    Hi all.

    We bought a older house late last year, and decided to change the locks within a few weeks of moving in.

    We changed the front and back door locks, the back door is a UPVC white type which looks at least 6 years old if not older/

    It is this back door that is the problem.

    We have just discovered that turning the key in the lock sometimes does not actually result in a locked door ! (when the key is turned into lock position) if you then push the handle down, it just moves down and door can be opened. So we have to double check it is locked every time, which isn't to bad a problem.. The real Pain is this...If you actually manage to lock the door and take the key out, you can then actually get the door to unlock again by wiggling the handle up and down several times, eventually the door unlocks as handle turns downwards and you hear the mechanism unlock !!

    Do I need a new door or is it just a cheapo dodgy lock ? Please help as I don't know whether to call a locksmith or a double glazing company !

    Thank you
    Steve
     
  2. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    if the doors a newish UPVC then it is likely to be have a 'multi point' locking feature. To see if it has open the door then lift the handle on the edge of the door you should see catches/hooks which move up and down if so to lock the door, shut it then lift up the handle to engage the locking feature, then turn the key to lock it in this 'locked position. Also your main exit door should really have a 'thumbturn' in the unlikely event of an emergency.
     
  3. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    First try holding the handle up at the same time as turning the key to lock. The key should turn easier(and possibly further than before)!

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  4. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    Yes it does have a multipoint locking system...Let me elaborate...

    So to lock I do this...

    Put key in, push handle upwards so multi point locks slot into place. Turn key into lock position and then, if I push handle down, it does not move down anymore (which is the test that door is locked, right?) Then I take out the key. ....Now, if I wiggle the handle as if I want to force it down and then up a few times in quick succession, after 3 or 4 wiggles the system unlocks (I hear the mechanism open...then the handle does move down if pushed and door opens. I am locking it as it is meant to be locked, but the problem I describe is there.. Hope this helps clarify

    PS: tried that, in frustration Mr HandyAndy

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  5. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    It sounds like the locking bar in the door has worn at the point where the euro lock goes (euro lock is the part the key fit into).

    To check this you are going to have to remove the euro lock, this is quite simple to do.

    It would be best if you could post a pic or two of you door handle.

    One from the inside and one of the lock from the door edge.

    Then we can explain how to remove it.
     
  6. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    When you mean you changed the lock, do you mean you changed the cylinder? Usuually known as a euro cylinder. If you have the old cylinder handy try fitting and then try it.
     
  7. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    Hi JG
    Yes I mean the cylinder bit that the key goes into was changed, it sticks out of the door a little. Yes I do have the old one, I will try and fit that and see if problem is cured.

    Hi Phil. if this does not work I will take a couple of pics and post on here. Thanks guys in the meantime. Sounds crazy this problem, perhaps it is what Phil is saying, if it is the locking bar then can it be fixed by a locksmith?
     
  8. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    If it is the locking bar it can be fixed by you, but one thing at a time, try the old euro first.
     
  9. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    it wont be the cylinder

    either a new centrecase or a full multilock assenbly there should be a name and a number on the front of lock
     
  10. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    OK, changed the eurolock cylinder for one of the old ones, and didn't make any difference- the problem is still there- It still unlocks when you wiggle the handle. Here are some pics, (hopefully)

    What next ?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    You obviously know how to change the euro lock so you know how to remove it, you need it removed to be able to remove the locking bar.

    On the chrome strip ( locking bar) on the door edge, you will see lots of Philips (pozzi) screws, if you remove these and the two screws holding the handles on and remove handles, you will be able to remove the chrome strip, this is one unit that contains all of the multi point locks.

    http://m.screwfix.com/p/yale-adjustable-replacement-upvc-door-lock-35mm/74544
     
  12. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    Hi Phil,
    OK, then what should I do once the strip comes off?

    Thanks
     
  13. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Replace it with the one I listed, or similar if you find one cheaper, if it's the same size.
    I listed that one because 70% of upvc door will have that type in them, fingers crossed yours is the same.
     
  14. Steveg

    Steveg New Member

    Thank you very much, but could the problem be the centrecase as mentioned by Biffo above? or is it the same thing?

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  15. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    If your center case is removable then yes it would be that, if you can buy it on it's own then yes just change it, bit most places sell the whole locking system as one unit.
     
  16. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    you need to know the backset size and the pz the size from the centre of the spindle to the centre of the cylinder size plus the shootbolt spacings

    before you order anything

    it looks like a GU lock the cases do detatch easy ebay will have them no need to buy comlpete multi lock ok
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014

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