Warm Air Heating central heating

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by loser, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. loser

    loser New Member

    Hi all,

    I'm buying a house which is a 1970's 4 bed detached in surrey which has original warm air heating. I am after some advice, are the warm air systems any good?
    I'm going to get some quotes for a complete new wet central heating system and also a new warm air boiler ideally with a built in integrated hot water circulator to get rid of the hot water cylinder. have any of you guys had experience with warm air systems and what sort of prices am I looking at for all the options?  Is it worth replaying the whole system for rads?
    Thank in advance.
  2. teabreak

    teabreak Active Member

    Hi,
    I would ditch the warm air system and go for a new wet system.  Warm air was ok in 1970s council homes, because most people had never had central heating so anything was an improvement! (Ah the Sugg F60, gave me  many hours of overtime replacing bearings and fans).
    Warm air tends to get noisy after a while, many people complain of dry throats, smells can be spread around the house more easilly, you still need a circulator for hot water and the filter needs attention from time to time.
    Best wishes,
    teabreak.
  3. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R New Member

    I have just removed one from our 3-bedroom semi.  It was dry heat and had no filtration on the output so everything and anything could have been circulating in the airflow.  Removing the ducts from the loft-space has given me back a space that is useable for storage.  I am replacing the old boiler with a combi which will be wall mounted and will give-up enough space to house the washing machine.  The 'pilot' on its own was a gas guzzler and a modern boiler will give you a huge efficiency gain.
  4. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    The only good thing about warm air heating was the time taken to heat up a room, but as stated this came at the cost of high gas usage.
  5. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    You are a fool and should stick to changing bathrooms.  Leaving heating to those who understand it.
  6. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    You haven't a clue what you are talking about.
  7. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Forced air are superb.  Warm air is exempt from Part L1 because it so efficient.  If I was you I would

    Fit a 36C or 39C Avantaplus combi boiler.
    Fit a Johnson & Starley  Aquair:
    http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/warm-air/aquair.asp

    [​IMG]

    These are 8kW (approx 27,000 Btu), and if not big enough then go for the Belgian MultiCalor which start at 20kW.
    These units only have a copper coil and fan inside, and that is about it.
    The high efficient condensing combi only heats the copper coil.  That means no sludge produced by radiators, guaranteeing boiler longevity..
    An absolute superb, simple system.  Instant hot water and a simple air handling unit.
    The Multicalor's fan only operates when the copper coil is up to temperature.

    You fit the combi and a simple stat/programmer.
    The combi switches on, pumps hot water to the unit, only when the copper coil is hot the fan is activated.  The controls system is super-simple - the Multicalor is not connected to the boiler's controls at all.  It can be just connected to a 13A socket via a plug.

    I would also fit a Johnson & Starley electrostatic air filter - recommended for asthmatics. these clean the recirculated air down to 1 micron, smaller than a tobacco smoke particle.
    http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/cleanflow/overview.asp

    [​IMG]
    The Multicalor. They have a direct replacement 400mm wide for Johnson & Starley units.  Just take out the old unit, and drop in the new. Plug it into a socket.  A simple combi can then be fitted with  a simple stat/programmer.



    <ol>[*]The Aquair and Multicalor can have the fans running in summer to give effective comfort cooling.  See if your rads can do that. ;)
    http://www.dbgreen-warmair.co.uk/air.html


    [​IMG]
    The Multicalor


    Take no notice to PLUMBERS - they are good at drains, not heating.
  8. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Why's that Walter? You think a wet system could warm a room in the same amount of time a warm air system does??
    Even a gas fire wouldn't heat a whole room as fast as the warm air system.
    PS I did say, that was the only good thing about them.
  9. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    How foolish!!

    All modern units have air filtration. Electrostatic air filters are available.
    Fresh air can be introduced into the return air flow.
    And introduced radiators that take up wall space, leak and get full of sludge.
    Read my other post of this.  You should have spoken to a proper heating engineer, not a plumber, before doing something so foolish.
  10. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Do not comment on matters you know sweet nothing about.  Stick to woodwork.
  11. loser

    loser New Member

    Thanks for the help water systems. How have you any idea how much that would all cost including fitting?
  12. chris@vietec.com

    chris@vietec.com New Member

    Of course he does not, he has never fitted one in his life and his reply was copied from someone else the same as he done with the pump post
  13. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    This chris@vietec.com is an idiot.  he never contributes anything to threads. Admin please ban him and then he will stay on  DIY doughnuts.
  14. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    It depends on what you fit.  The smaller J&S unit is cheaper than the MultiCalor.  What size is the existing warm air unit?  Look on the badge at the kW or BTUs.  If you need the J&S unit, the electrostatic filter can be integrated. The unit will drop onto the existing warm air unit plenum.  Then it is a matter of fitting the combi. One company can do it all. J&S would recommend one.

    I recently had an Aquair fitted in a house. It was initially undersized, but the customer was fitting double glazing, cavity wall insulation and heavily increasing the loft insulation. This brought the heat load, luckily, to just 8kW. The insulation costs were less than the extra cost of the larger 20kW MultiCalor.  I have fitted this combination to a houses that are 45-50 years old and the existing ductwork used.  See if rad pipes are usable in 50 years time.

    It would be cheaper than a whole new rad system and far less mess.  Rad systems are the pits.  They are a poor compromise, that only bathroom changing plumbers understand, that is why they are common.  Look at the ignorant replies on this thread.  The air handing unit requires no servicing.  It has no combustion parts, just a  fan and copper coil. Just empty the filter occasionally.   The new units are quiet.

    Cost?  OK:

    <ol>[*]The fitting of the combi. [*]Then the air-handling unit.  </ol>
    With rads you have No. 1. The rads vs. the air handling unit will be more. And you have ugly problematic rads and pipes everywhere that can leak.  The thermostatic valves only last about 5-8 years. Most require a drain down to replace. The rads sludge up and rot and you will be lucky on average to have them in 20 years time.  The sludge affects the boiler and reduces its life with the total system efficiency dropping..  The combi and air-handing unit has no ferrous and can't sludge up. The boiler will last a life time.

    Forced air is the norm in the USA/Canada and very common on the Continent.  Done properly with decent equipment they sing.  The Avantaplus can be set to give a constant flow temperature.  Times have changed.  The combination of a combi and a copper coil air-handing unit changes matters, to the point forced air is now being taken more seriously, especially in the warm-air unit replacement market.
  15. loser

    loser New Member

    Water, are you a gas safe engineer?
  16. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    I just don't get it Walter. Your username is certainly at odds with what your preaching now.
    Perhaps time to change it to Hot Air Systems. You sure do seem to be talking lots of hot air now (no change there then)

    Last poster asked how much it would be. You have not answered this simple question, rather you have spouted some drivel about sludge and ugly problematic radiators and pipes everywhere. No mention of monetary costs. Your customers (if you have any) must be sick to death of asking about anything, only for you to launch into a diatribe.
    I can well imagine a typical conversation between you and a prospective customer......

    The  batphone rings......
    Walter "Hello,Water Systems ,How can I help?"

    Customer "Emm hello there.My Worcester Bosch combi boiler has broken down and I need a new one to replace it. How much would that be please?"

    Walter "Ahh well, first of all, I don't give prices. I'd suggest you consider the merits of ground source hot air, combined with thermal efficiency regulators."

    Customer "What?"

    Walter "Ahh yes ,you should be considering the flux capacitance of the total system for the ultimate low cost to yourself."

    Customer "I only want the cost of a new boiler."


    Walter "No, you don't." "You only think you want a new boiler, I know best matey."

    Customer "Goodbye." brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

    Walter "Hello? Hello? I haven't told you about our exclusive thermal system yet, It's so new no one knows about it." "Hello? Hello? Hello?"

  17. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Heating engineer.  I don't do drains.
  18. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    It was answered.  You are obviously a con-artists who knows how to ramp up the price to a customer.  Stick to woodwork.  Keep sharpening the blades.
  19. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Cheers Walter... One thing, you certainly aren't the sharpest chisel in the box. I reckon you actually work at Asda, or Tesco. Surely not the meet and greet person on the door though. Customers would be coming through the door asking where the bacon was kept only to be told biscuits are down aisle 6. When asking where wash powder is, you'd tell them cheese and butter are in aisle 21.

    PS unless I'm sadly mistaken, you have not mentioned the cost of the system to the OP. All you have done is compare wet and hot air systems. No price has been mentioned.
  20. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    I reckon you are an idiot. Stick to sawing wood.

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