We really need a site to review customers

Paul, your first sentence of this post made me wince before I read any further. Warning signs were evident straight away, they clearly were NOT nice people if you were knocked on the price BEFORE a deposit (which was hugely delayed) was cleared with yourself. You should have drawn a line there before it got off the ground.

It's easy for me to pick holes in this but it's a different kettle of fish when you're in that position yourself, I know as I'm self employed too, none of this is meant in a 'told you so way.' We REALLY do need a site where we can name and shame these wretched pikeys so all tradesmen know to steer clear, once the legal defamation of character issues are ironed out.

I had advantage taken of me big time last year by almost the exact same scenario, young family, bespoke shelves, New skirting, etc, only resolved by me revisiting three times and taking a friend as a witness with a big Nikon, whilst quietly implying small claims court if no agreement was reached, I would have rather slit my own throat than let them get away with it smiling.

Fight them tooth and nail, let all and sundry know in your area who these people are, down the pub, at the hairdressers(unless you're bald, but I'd still go in for a shave, they gossip like no other), with new and existing customers (just subtly dropped into conversation), social media with your mates, every avenue possible.

Don't let this go, whether you're out of pocket or not, if you do they'll win, and they'll do it to someone else, it's as simple as that.

 

Fight it, get your money.

Like you, I am (or was!) a very trusting person who would do odd extra bits of work for free as a good-will gesture. So far, the last 3 jobs I have done this for have all tried to wriggle out of the final payment and/or dragged their feet with payments.

What I've come to realise is that customers will plead poverty, dire circumstances, be as nice as pie to your face, etc. JUST TO GET THE PRICE DOWN. At the end of the day they're all bar stewards; chocolate-coated bar-stewards, with a bar-steward centre.

Also register them at www.reportacustomer.com

 

Seconded. Very sad but true. I'm just glad I've learned at a relatively early stage of self employment, you try not to let it get to you but can't be helped sometimes. These people mess it up for the genuine customer, as once we've been burned, we don't do anything above and beyond for anyone now, as it just isn't worth the aggro.

Everyone pleads poverty but they all have money for booze, ****, plasma tv on wall, New car on drive, brats running round in designer clothes etc. Drives hell in me.

 

I have a client at the moment; when we started digging for foundations for their extension, we found a 750 diameter pipe running right under one side of it (turns out it's carrying a small stream from further up). The Architect, Engineer and Planning department had all missed it, so they needed to design and build a cantilevered slab foundation on top of block walls and foundations running parallel to the pipe. Dig ended up 2m deep.
Client gave the full waterworks, wouldn't be able to afford the rest of the build, would just be left with an expensive patio, etc. Like a pillock, I fell for it hook, line and sinker and did the additional works at cost price, not including any wage for myself, so that they would be able to afford their new extension.
2 days ago they changed the design of the roof to the tune of £3000 because the wife "didn't like the look of the fascia".

FML

 

Fascia!!!!??? Of all things the damn fascia? Shame the architect, engineer and planners don't reduce their bills for their glaring omission to subsidise your deficit. I would most certainly now not put up a coathook without an agreed extra sum, and prepare yourself for quibble and grief when negotiating final payment. I take your example as they've nailed their colours to the mast now, be very careful from this point on, as they'll probably unfortunately turn out to be nightmare customers. I hope I'm wrong for you though....

 

Hopefully this will put the wind up them and you'll get what they owe you. If this is true by the police's statement then it really really shows the importance of written correspondence and having contracts in place. Keep us updated as I for one would like to hear these chancers have their comeuppance. Good luck.

 

Hellish situation, Paul.

I think I'd take issue with one thing you've said, that the law is angled in favour of the customer.

I may be wrong, but I think the law is designed to be as fair as it can be, and allow both sides to state their claim - and allow an impartial judge to make a reasoned decision based on the evidence.

And, I agree with you - your case looks pretty water-tight.

On the main issues - that the units are made from MDF and are unpainted - there should be NO dispute at ALL; this is stated clearly in your drawings and build spec (and surely to gawd you also make this clear in conversations with your potential clients, even if only in casual conversation "So, what colour do you think you'll end up painting it? Are you DIYing this or getting a pro decorator in..." etc etc?

Surely?

I mean, you might have an old couple who genuinely don't realise this - are you onehundredpercent certain this is made clear in MORE than your drawings?

Yes? Great. They don't have a poochy leg to stand on.

(And you generously primed the MDF for them FOC.)

Then comes the other issue - the delay in completing the job. This was pretty obviously totally beyond your control. Were you able to let them know you were disabled and couldn't complete the job, or were they left wondering if you were turning up again?

I don't know if there's any legal ground for them cancelling the job due to this unfortunate 'circumstance beyond your control' health issue. I simply don't know - so you'd need to find that out. There is certainly little moral ground for it.

Couple this delay with the one they put you through in the beginning, forcing you to cancel and rearrange other jobs...

So, after taking all that in to account, if I were you I'd sue - and enjoy the process.

When you all turn up - they with their swaggering FOC 'family friend' solicitor (make sure the judge knows this) - I am as certain as a certain thing that the judge/adjudicator will look very poorly on them trying this on with their pocket-solicitor when they simply don't have a case.

Their threat to counter-sue for you not being able to complete this job within the 'agreed' time - when they know you were effectively paralysed from the waist down is called - wait for it - harassment. Add to that their threat of reporting you to the police! In law, 'harassment' is a beaut.

They have done as they'd hoped - intimidated, harassed and bullied you in submission.

That has served only to make your case stronger. I honestly believe that the judge will be appalled at this solicitor's behaviour. And even more so when he knows he's a freebie - these people didn't even have to fork out for their intimidation.

What caused your illness? Was it stress-related in any way? Do you reckon these intimidating letters/email have helped you recover?!

("Mr Otter - how did you feel when you received this threat to report you to the police for theft?" "Your honour, I was already pretty distressed by my illness, and this threat reduced me to tears, I'm ashamed to admit. I didn't sleep for days with the worry. I just couldn't believe they'd really think that of me when I had been open and honest with them throughout..." )

Paul, there is IMMENSE satisfaction in getting the right result in a case like this, regardless of how time-consuming or how long it takes. I can honestly say I would NOT let them off with this, but would actively look forward to my day in court.

Will CAB give advice to tradespeeps or just consumers? It might well be that these folk would back-track when they realise (a) you ain't backing down, (b) truly believe you have a water-tight case and (c) are going to add harassment to the claim.

But you need proper advice.

 

Very good, very very good.... would you like a job as my customer relations manager? Minimal pay, but immense job satisfaction

 

Yes, I saw that Paul. Well done for checking that out.

The next chance you have to speak to a cop, ask him/her if the customer has any grounds on which to threaten to report you to the police regarding the key. Make clear to him/her that they have threatened you with this. Ask if you think they have any grounds on which to do this - or was it a threat for threat's sake? Add that they've also threatened you with being sued for breach of contract due to non-completion of the job - when you were physically incapable of moving. Tell the cop how distressing you found all this - almost emotionally overwhelming - and whether it is 'normal' for people to try out these sorts of threats - did they have any legal grounds for doing so? Do they think their solicitor was being 'reasonable' or just trying it on? Either way, make sure you mention how you found it all quite distressing.

I'm kinda hoping the policepeep will raise their eyebrows and see this as classic 'harassment'. If they do, ask if it can be logged as such...

 

I really don't know the law well enough.

But I would expect it to be a civil case of the law, as in you need to raise the case not the police?

But if you wanted to go back in to retrieve your items that have not been paid for, then I would expect the Poluce to be prepared to attend in case of hostilities, lack of access etc?

Good luck though

 

For light relief today I finished a job for some one who came on here advice and I ended up doing the job for them.
All went well, client was happy, I've got a repeat job of it and I've recommended 2 friends from different trades for other work.