Why Do I Often Have Problems With E/Feed Connectors On Vertical Pipes?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by woodbine66, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. woodbine66

    woodbine66 New Member

    Can anyone give me some advice about soldering pipes? I seem to have mastered end feed fittings, except I often struggle with 15 and 22mm straight connectors on vertical pipe. No problem getting the solder into the top of the connector, it's getting it to suck upwards into the bottom of the connector that often goes wrong. The joint will then weep at the bottom. It seems to be that getting solder to flow upwards against gravity is my problem.

    I first clean the pipe and fitting. I then apply a light coat of flux (Laco/Powerflow) to the pipe then after assembly, heat the joint with a pro quality propane torch. Not too fierce a flame, especially on 15mm. Then I feed flux into the top of connector with no problems. However, keeping the flame on the fitting, I often find the solder reluctant to go up into the bottom of the connector.

    Does anyone have any tips or advice? Am I right to apply solder to the top of the connector first?
     
  2. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    Your applying to much solder to the fitting woodbine.;)
     
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  3. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Plenty of video's on the tube, to help you.:)



    And our own Mr Plum.:)



     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
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  4. TT Nog

    TT Nog New Member

    You cant apply too much flux......especially if you need the solder to move upwards...and make sure you have the correct flux too....lead free flux is useless if you are using leaded solder.....thats what I've found anyway, and we just renovated an old house renewing all the ground floor copper, and had no leaks on any soldered joints...
     
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  5. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    If you apply to much flux especially to a vertical joint the excess flux will run down the pipe clean it and that will allow the solder that does run to stick to your pipe.You never want to apply to much flux on any joint just a smear is enough, then clean your joint off once it has cooled down as any flux left on will over time eat through the pipe and you will get pin holes.;)
     
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  6. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Flux is very corrosive.
     
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  7. Perhaps it's the flux I use, but applying too much makes it bubble, and it's horrible sometimes also seeing the lead being bubbled out - you get paranoid that there's an empty void left in the joint; swell - 'pop!'. Swell - po... oops, the lead has cooled & set - in mid bubble... :oops:

    Excellent vids - I'm astonished at how little lead is used.

    Another place where I've been going wrong... :oops::rolleyes:
     
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  8. TT Nog

    TT Nog New Member

    Yes of course, but you SHOULD be cleaning any excess flux off the pipe after the solder has set anyway...thats just good practice. And once the joint is up to temperature, a quick "wipe" of the solder between 9 and 3 on the joint should be ample.....and just have confidence that capilliary action is on your side......
     
  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    And make sure inside of fitting & pipe are clean to allow solder to run freely.

    And having a good propane torch is very helpful to sucessful soldering, but you can't beat a Mapp torch for high heat & fastness of soldering.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  10. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    You been in my toolbag Kiab.;)
     
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  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    :rolleyes::oops:

    You want to do any plumbing, then a Mapp torch is essential kit, puts all the diy butane-propane torches to shame.

    Propane heats to around 3500f & Mapp gas to 3670f, but MAPP has a lot more BTU's compared to Propane.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  12. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

  13. Lol love Mr Plum's Lancastrian style

    Oh F..... shoot stop this forum thread, it's gone wrong the ends come off
     
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  14. woodbine66

    woodbine66 New Member

    Many thanks for the posts and videos - really appreciated. Such a friendly bunch here.

    Couple of points;
    So, going by the first video, and the fact that no one's said different - is it always advisable to do the top part of the connector on vertical pipe first? Or do others solder the bottom bit first?
    Looks like I may have been shooting myself in the foot, because I often feed the flux in on the same side as the heat from torch. Should I always feed solder in on opposite side to heat?
    For a DIYer, is MAPP really going to make a difference? Main thing is a good joint. Does MAPP make better joints, or just quicker ones? I would rather take things slower than rush, and am wary of overheating things and burning off the flux before the solder is sucked in.
     
  15. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Why do you need to keep feeding in flux?
    Clean fitting & pipe, brush pipe & inside of fitting with flux, don't be excessive with, it's not needed.

    As for a Mapp torch it's hotter & much quicker (it's like going from a mini to porsche) to heat a fitting, than a ordinary butane or butane/propane torch.
    I go as far to say, you make better joints with Mapp, because it's quicker to heat joint, so less time to burn off flux,maybe less time to over heat joint, sure others would agree.
     
  16. woodbine66

    woodbine66 New Member

    Thanks KIAB - you spotted my mistake. Should read ", because I often feed the solder in on the same side as the heat from torch".
     
  17. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    10/10 for Kiab thumbsupt.jpg
     
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  18. woodbine66

    woodbine66 New Member

    Sorry, but can I ask if plumbers are soldering a straight e/feed connector on a vertical pipe, would you do the top part of the connector first, or not?

    I've got to know! ;)
     
  19. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    I always do the bottom first mate.;)
     
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  20. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Depends how I feel, sometime I will do top first, other time I do bottom first.

    Makes no difference to the finished joint.
     
    woodbine66 likes this.

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