Will butt and scribe joint work on chamfered worktop

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by WaterMagic, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. WaterMagic

    WaterMagic New Member

    Just been asked to fit a kitchen with oak worktops that have square edges. I thought straight forward butt joins with biscuits would be the way to join them. However the customer has asked for the top edges to be chamfered at 45 degrees. I could buy a suitable router bit, but I don't think the join will be neat if the edges are chamfered. Is using my worktop jig to cut male and female sides of the join going to work?

    Or should I duck out and suggest that if they wanted chamfered edges they should have bought worktops that had them?
  2. Stretch

    Stretch New Member

    Just butt joint the square edges first then run your router with the chamfering bit afterwards. This will produce a nice rounded corner where the two front edges meet. You'll need to chamfer the edges where the router won't reach before finally fixing the tops though.
  3. bonnie the botch

    bonnie the botch New Member

    hi, i also do as described but i also take a small aris of the bottom edge as well. the other way with a feature already on the post formed edge is to make the button scribe just deep enough in the female side to cover say the depth of the existing pencil round. i would try and avoid if possible putting a full masons mitre in any real wood w/tops because of the expansion. might also be worth your while having a looksy a the MI'S that come with the tops before you make a decision
  4. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    >>i would try and avoid if possible putting a full masons mitre in any real wood w/tops because of the expansion.<<

    I think it is time this issue was addressed more fully.

    basically, I am an idiot who doesn't understand what expansion of the wood has got to do with avoiding a mason's mitre, and would be grateful for elucidation.
  5. WaterMagic

    WaterMagic New Member

    Thanks guys. Both responses make sense. The worktops arrive tomorrow. I will take offcuts, chamfer the edges then butt them together to check all is well. Will report back after the experiment.
  6. russ295

    russ295 New Member

    had a job the other week to remove some howdens beech block tops that i had fitted under warranty, there was splits appearing in the staves, this was the second lot she'd had fitted, i left the job perfect, a 10mm deep mitre to cover come the radius. basic "u" shape. 3 coats of oil etc.

    when i removed them the length where the hob cut out was had shrunk from 616 to 605, resulting in the join (45' bit) opening and the tops pulling the sealant from the tiles. it looked terrible.

    she changed them for laminate.

    if they had been butted it wouldnt have shown apart from the sealant, but as they had been replaced already, the tops wern't quite under the tiles to start with, if they had it would have been ok.

    now i wouldn't fit solid tops if they have a radius fitted and wont be fitting any more howdens beech block unless they are straight runs!

    russ
  7. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    > had a job the other week to remove some howdens beech
    block tops that i had fitted under warranty, there
    was splits appearing in the staves, this was the
    second lot she'd had fitted, i left the job perfect,
    a 10mm deep mitre to cover come the radius. basic "u"
    shape. 3 coats of oil etc.

    when i removed them the length where the hob cut out
    was had shrunk from 616 to 605, resulting in the join
    (45' bit) opening and the tops pulling the sealant
    from the tiles. it looked terrible.

    she changed them for laminate.

    if they had been butted it wouldnt have shown apart
    from the sealant, but as they had been replaced
    already, the tops wern't quite under the tiles to
    start with, if they had it would have been ok.

    now i wouldn't fit solid tops if they have a radius
    fitted and wont be fitting any more howdens beech
    block unless they are straight runs!

    russ


    Russ, I assume this is a reply to my question about why wouldn't you use a masons mitre on solid wood, but I still don't quite get it.

    if the joint was biscuited and glued with a urea- formaldehyde glue (what used to be known as Cascamite), I don't see why it would open.

    there is one other factor which many kitchen fitters may not quite get.

    when you fit a laminate worktop, you screw through from underneath through the rails to ensure a tight fit.

    if you do this on a solid wood top you are asking for trouble, the correct way is to drill an oversize hole in the rail and screw through with a round head screw and a washer, this allows for expansion/contraction in the wood.

    ironically, the better the quality of the base unit, the more likely the above problem is to occur.
  8. fuster

    fuster New Member

    What I don't understand is why you would make expansion slots in the rails, and then glue the joint. I'm not saying it doesn't work, as I know lots of fitters do this. I just don't understand why it doesn't cause exactly the problems you describe with screwing it down.

    Maybe because it's an end grain glue join ie not strong (unless you glue the biscuits in as well of course-perhaps something to avoid)

    If you've got tiles at the back, I would think screw the back of the wortkop down tight,and leave expansion slots at the front. And don't use a mason's mitre or it'll all go wrong somewhere.

    I've only fitted a couple of solid wood tops, but I have made tables with breadboard ends on which is the same situation and I know for sure you don't glue those!

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