Work that obstructs a pavement

Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by P J Thompson, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    This is a new one for me, I haven't had to do it before but I've got to go and quote for the painting of a shopfront. It's a two storey building in a narrow and fairly busy street with a narrow pavement.

    With Collective safety being paramount is scaffold the only option?
    If I worked off a ladder then I'd have to make a walkway out in the narrow road for people, if I used a Mewp it would take them even further into the street. So to my mind covered scaffold with pedestrian access beneath is the only workable option. That would be a pain because it's not going to be more than two days work at height. Am I right or is there a better option?
     
  2. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    What about a tower scaffold rather than a full lift, you'll have to tape off the area below though I'd imagine.....?
     
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  3. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I think a tower would have the same issue as ladder or mewp, people would have to go round it, into a narrow and busy street.
     
  4. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    The issue is also compounded by being right on a T junction.
     
  5. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Either do the job on a sunday or reschedule the job for a midnight start, with floodlights and plenty of coffee mate! :confused:
     
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  6. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    I believe you also need a licence from the council to erect a scaffold or tower plus proof of adequate liability cover of £10 million........happened to me so I didn't do the job! Oh! and the council charge for the licence! :eek:
     
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  7. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Cheers chaps. I quite like the through the night idea but sadly it's right in the heart of a big town and near a lot of bars :D
    You do need a permit for scaffold in the street and they do charge, though I don't think it's a big charge. £50-£100 I read somewhere. The insurance may be more of an issue if that's true cos I only have £2 million and I bet the extra would hurt me on the premium. I think a speculative call to the council before doing the quote may be in order.
     
  8. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Ask the council if you can close the pavement for 2 days, this way you are able to get on without fear of spilling paint on peeps below.
     
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  9. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Awww, spilling paint on people is half the fun :D Seriously though I think the days of 'walking under ladders' are over. I may be wrong but I think it's a no no nowadays to have people passing under you when working at height unless it's a covered scaffold.
     
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  10. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    If you are in England you have to contend with the "noise act" 2003, which will put restrictions on you working late into the evening - and can also stop you during the day.

    You need to contact your local BC/Highways departments to see what they suggest. They won't want to prevent you working but will have to accommodate pedestrians. If you aren't complaint the fine can be astronomical
     
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  11. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    Cheers, i think that call to the council tomorrow is definitely needed! I'll post back with what they say.
     
  12. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I'm actually a bit surprised. I've just been called back by the Council. The official line from them is that they only need to be involved if you're erecting scaffolding or using a MEWP. If you work off a ladder all they require is for you to be sensible about people with things like wheel/pushchairs and mobility carriages. Ie, come down off the ladder and let them through. Other than that it's purely a matter for whoever is doing the work to ensure everyone's safety, which is obvious of course. The tone was very much a steer toward using a ladder. They have NO issue with people walking beneath the ladder so I was wrong in post #9!
    This makes me happy. I mentioned that it's only a couple of days work to do the high level bit of the frontage and to have to quote for scaffold or a MEWP would have been harsh!
     
  13. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    You must of spoken with the office boy and not Mr Jobsworth, prolonged working from height off a ladder is a grey area as ladders should only be used for access to or from a scaffold or tower.o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O:eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:
     
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  14. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    You're sort of right. You're still allowed to work off a ladder. They aren't limited to just a means of access. But yes, it's about the duration, they are to be worked off for short periods only. With that in mind, having to come down and move the ladder out of the way of pushchairs is a good thing isn't it :)
    To be fair, I expect the client would rather pay me to come down and take regular breaks in a 2 day period anyway than pay for MEWP/scaffold hire, pay for the permit etc.
     
  15. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    There is no way I would every work off a ladder on a pavement without a barrier in place. All it takes is someone to walk by and accidentally knock the foot of the ladder and you are down.
     
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  16. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Have to agree with sospan on this, drop a brush or paint container.................it happens!
     
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  17. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Did something last week I have seen others do but never done myself - painting a ceiling ,working my across the room moving the steps each time then on one move backed down the steps and put my foot into the 10l tub of paint :oops: Fortunately, there was just inch or two of paint but even so, what a pain
     
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  18. P J Thompson

    P J Thompson Active Member

    I agree with both of you :) Just because the council and regs don't apparently have an issue with people passing under a ladder, it doesn't mean that I don't. I can't see how it could be considered as safe working practice to be up a ladder with tools, paint kettles or whatever and have people passing directly beneath it. Makes no sense to me. This is why I'm so surprised that I was wrong in post #9.
    With regard to the ladder itself and my own safety. Yes, I agree, if people can get anywhere near the ladder there's a very real risk of them knocking it. They don't need to actually knock it over do they, a good tap might be enough for you up the ladder to lose your balance. The building doesn't appear to have any suitable anchor points :(
    These things are why I mentioned in the OP that I'd have to make a walkway in the road if I use a ladder. It looks like that's the most likely option now. To make a narrow pedestrian walkway in the road and then come down and move things to let any form of carriage through. It's a faff for sure...
    There's also the issue of the traffic itself. It isn't just pedestrians that could knock the ladder is it. Vehicles are a merciless and real risk! It's quite an involved risk assessment when you think about it isn't it. Lots to consider.
    Jord mentioned doing it off a tower earlier. That would certainly be safer for me but it would block the pavement and that puts you into the area of permits.
    So, I'm happy that the council aren't forcing me down the scaffold/MEWP/permit route but I do still have very real concerns about doing the job off a ladder. Those concerns aren't insurmountable though and I guess I'll just have to address them...if I get and take the job.
     
  19. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    sospan 1 Astramax1 ;):D
     
  20. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Probably like you laughed at others whom have done it and boy is it blinking awkward - shoe off, stand there in sock and get the worst off and then rinse under tap, At which point the adhesive properties of emulsion seem to change and becomes resistant to water :( Then have to squelch about all day with a soggy foot
     

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