Article 50

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by parahandy, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. I think I know where you get your information from, JJ - you've posted enough links to them on here.

    But that's all you do - post links that you've carefully selected (I hate to think of what your search terms were) and then sit back going "There!"

    What I ask of you is this, JJ - put YOUR words down here in black and white. Say what it is you are trying to say. State your claims, and make them clear. Then they might warrant a reply.

    Phil wouldn't do this with his picture, and you wouldn't do it with Ford/Turkey.

    You know what I'm saying.
     
  2. Possibly, Longs - I don't know.

    No doubt that immigrants and refugees will be a cross-section of the society they come from, just as indig Brits are. And also no doubt that some come from cultures that are way behind us in terms of attitude where everyone should be treated equally. And no doubt that a very small number will also actually be hell bent on causing us harm.

    Just like the indig Brits. And these are issues that all societies need to deal with directly and openly.

    This is a journey the human race is on - 20 years ago there was open conflict, butchery and appalling atrocities in parts of Europe. 70-odd years ago pretty much all of Europe was in that situation. If that hasn't taught us how to deal with these issues, not by building walls and promoting jingoistic nationalism and invoking prejudice, but by opening borders - within reason - amongst those we are closest to.

    Free movement of EU citizens should be a given in a modern civilised Europe.

    And to selectively pick on those small minorities who let us all down - as many do on here, not you I don't think - to make any kind of Faragist or Trumpist point is appalling.

    In any case, the damage has been done. There is no going back to pre-Brexit days, even if someone could somehow prevent Art 50 or provide a further referendum. The floodgates for the bigoted and ignorant have been opened - those who harboured these feelings but knew they were unacceptable, now think they are respectable.

    The damage has been done across Europe too - witness the rise of the far-right in Germany, for instance. If that doesn't give pause, what on earth can?! But many on here will - incredibly - cheer on any damage done to the EU. It's really quite incredible. We are not learning from history. There is no bigger picture for many on here.

    Just keep a beady eye out for the all the new policies from the gov - who will they benefit? The working class? Those who voted Leave?

    I don't think so.
     
  3. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    I like the bit EU citizens DA, but you do realise the vast majority of these immigrants we're talking about, just ain't EU citizens. I'm sure the upwards of 6000 in the jungle at Calais aren't in possession of an EU passport (in fact I think it's a fair bet they've thrown away their passports altogether)
    In the main , down to a certain Ms Angela Merkel's failure to realise that mass immigration is not sustainable, not necessary and not wanted (by the majority of EU people).
     
  4. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    The bigger picture?
    I'm hopeful that one day, maybe your utopian society is achieved, wouldn't it be great,,,,?, and I reckon, 99.9999% of humans on the earth would welcome such an existence.
    The chances of it ever happening are realistically on the opposite end of the scale, 0.0001%.
    We're just too complicated.
    A person, or persons, always need to be in control of others for society to work, rules are in place, some have more than others, there's a 'them' and 'us' status.
    We need (as a species) conflict, it's natural. It's what we are.
    There is hope, but I'm far from optimistic that a utopia will ever exist.
    In fact, I think it's an impossible pipe-dream.
     
  5. That's quite scary... :(
     
  6. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Still happening today DA, as the citizens of Paris, Nice, Brussels and Munich will testify, (or don't you watch the news? ) Honestly DA, these lot are of a differing ideology to the rest of Europe,,, and still Merkel wants them to come to Europe. Please don't give me that BS that they're only a small minority. Doesn't matter if they're a small minority if the authorities don't know who they are. How many more bombs, attacks and atrocities will it take to convince you there's only one way to stop them? (or were you not horrified by these recent atrocities?)
     
  7. PaulBlackpool

    PaulBlackpool Screwfix Select

    Now we know.
    Brexit means Grammar Schools.:)
     
  8. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Pah, probably bring DA out of retirement. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  9. PaulBlackpool

    PaulBlackpool Screwfix Select

    You'd be at loose end then wouldn't you?;)
     
  10. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I presume you're talking about Muslims.
     
  11. The right-wing agenda has begun.

    Will Grammar schools help the most disadvantaged? Only a very small percentage. What it will actually mostly do is provide the equivalent of Private Schools to the better off - for free. Paid for by us.

    The divide in our society is just about to enlarge that wee bitty more.
     
  12. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Disheartening scary, or that someone could think it in the first place?
     
  13. How convenient for you that you can be all concerned and sanctimonious about the harm the 'small minority' could cause us - so's you can condemn a whole people.

    "(or were you not horrified by these recent atrocities?)" what pulse in your brain made you ask this?
     
  14. It's scary to think that the human race could be condemned to permanent warfare; that the chance of peaceful coexistence is as remote as you suggest.

    It won't surprise you that I do not agree in the least.

    The war in Syria ain't going to last forever. Nor is radical Islam. You fight it by showing the better way and removing what is sending these pitiful & deluded people over the edge, and that is usually poverty and ignorance. There is no overnight solution to this, but some think pulling up the drawbridge will serve us well enough. How short-sighted.

    Your claim that the human species 'needs' conflict could certainly become a self-fulfilling prophesy if countries - our nearest neighbours, for pity's sakes - divide rather than unite. It is literally history repeating itself. Jingoistic delusion coupled with the barely-concealed hatred of others (as demonstrated on this forum) is the first step.

    The fascists are rising again in Germany and beyond, and many many 'Leavers' are their bedfellows - they talk the same talk.
     
    longboat likes this.
  15. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select


    God forbid, DA. God forbid you let 10,000 of these people in and the 'small minority' move near to you and decide to take their guns to your local night club your daughter frequents.

    People see these atrocities and they don't want to see them again. They would rather have NO immigrants than a 'small minority' included!

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  16. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

     
  17. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Always made me wonder! There are still the same number of pupils/students. Why can't the comprehensive schools give grammar school education?

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  18. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    DA , you simply can't fight radical Islam by showing them a better way? What better way can they be shown than by living in a host country for months/ years? And how do they repay the kindness that's been shown them by France, Belgium and Germany?
    You think they're driven by poverty and ignorance? I don't think for one minute they're driven by poverty. I do think they are driven by jealousy. Jealous of the freedom we enjoy here in the west. After all the have said they want to "dominate the west" Why do they state this is what they want? (through ignorance perhaps?)
    As I said earlier, if the authorities can't recognise the "minority" who are coming to Europe to wreak terror, then what can they do to prevent them? There's only one logical solution, and that's to close the bloody door.
     
  19. malkie129

    malkie129 Screwfix Select

    I am so glad that I did not get too involved in this discussion.I am of course, a "remainer" and just to chuck another grenade into the room,I passed my 11+ and went to grammar school! :D:D:D
     
  20. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select


    DA, has a very short memory, he forgets it was his Mate, (Scary Blairy) who escalated all this terrorism, in trying to show them a better way and remove what's driving them, not really working, is it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     

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