Hanging internal doors!

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by WallWizard., Oct 27, 2016.

  1. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    Yes,undoubtedly so,good sir...and bills don't get any cheaper,as with our general standard of living,for sure!
    Ideally,in our world of crafts,a balance would be preferable, rather than going to either extreme... of tradition for traditions' sake,or as much profit as possible for survivals' sake! But...tradition taught us what we know,and who we are. If we forsake the old time honoured ways for the sake of monetary gain,in whatever sense,then we lose touch with the past,and belittle the future...
     
  2. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    I think the only people that sharpen handsaws nowadays are retired craftsmen, hobbyists or true traditionalists where financial circumstances aren't paramount to
    HAVING to earn. It's sadly not worth your time spending a couple hours when you can pick up a pair of Spear and Jackson's for a tenner.

    But I do wince at the future of British Construction when I see newly qualified carpenters using a marples chisel to chip off concrete snobs......
     
  3. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    And that leaves us in the present state of a tumultuosly confu
    Hehehe... Well said and I wince also!
    Actually, taking on board what you say,I am a traditionalist who's definitely a long way from retiring and to whom financial survival is pretty much paramount! And yet...within the time that I allocate to do whatever job comes up,I make sure that at some point I revert back to an old craft technique...out of principle. This never interferes with my profit margin,even if I have to explain to the client(..and most are not only very interested, but also accommodating...), the reason for me charging a few bucks more for my services!
     
    neibick76 likes this.
  4. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Completely agree, but I taught myself tradition and 'the old ways', because I'm sad and I like to learn things, and they just aren't given the time of day anymore, because they cost time, and time is money in this profession unfortunately. I did my college course 11 years ago (19 years old), and can say that they REALLY need to alter the curriculum, teaching techniques that though fundamentally correct, such as how to fix herringbone strutting, gets forgotten as soon as the students leave the room. You SHOULD know how to do it, but these skills get lost as soon as the students go into the modern workplace alongside/under pricework mentality mentally challenged 'site bashers' who 'only do roofs and joists mate,' as tool requirement is next to none. For the record it's still the best way of strutting joists.

    Then again I'm a hypocrite, as I wouldn't be without my hilti circular saw and guide rail for all the sake in Japan :D
     
  5. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    Yes,it should be beholden to professional tradesmen to take learners under their wing,and teach them the difference between craftsmanship and moneyship.. especially when it comes to price work on site! Therein lies the huge difference between industrial and domestic...Very few on site have the time or inclination, even if they wanted to,to teach the up and coming apprentices the old ways. And yet,working for a family within their own home,rhythms are different... Time's not so omnivorous! There is time to pass on knowledge, and time to learn properly. I gave up site work a long time ago,and have been lucky enough to take a couple of apprentices under my wing,while working the domestic market... and one has gone on to do the same.
    Yep....I well remember herringbone struttings , and you're quite right...
    The best way..
     
  6. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    And I guess I have to confess..much to my chagrin,that I'm a hypocrite too(..Oh ye masters of Japan forgive me!). If I remained truly true to my own principles, I'd be part of a craft school, teaching these things! Actually, that's an aim...and a friend and I nearly set up our own school a few years back. But...Things either work out,or they don't and obviously it wasn't the right time...but the ultimate aim remains.
    Time will tell...
     
  7. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Still gotta put food on the table though mate.......
     
  8. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    Aye...ain't that the truth Ruth! Kind of working on what kind of table to put it on though
     
  9. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

     
  10. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    50 is ok when its an easy enough fit with standard sizings and so on. I'd throw it in along with the main bulk earnings on a job. usually in domestics there's a request for something else to be done, and prices like 50, 75, 100 are acceptable. But as a one off job it won't pay, except in courtesy and good will etc.

    But beware of the cunning old crudgers who wait year in year out to get a job done at a price they think is worth it (ie 1970's), and its usually the job from hell.

    I do domestic works and the pace changes with each house. I met a true hoarder once and had to abandon most of the works as I couldn't get near the job. He just couldn't move anything to anywhere else in the house. We got something done but can't do anymore now. One job involved a family that shoved everything behind the door. No door could open more than half way. Absolutely silly way to live.

    But there are still customers out there who appreciate that tradesfolk do a good old fashioned fix.
     
  11. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    My cats not blacker than yours mate, honest.

    Couple of years back I was asked to hang four doors in a house on the estate I grew up in, normal hollow colonials, no prob I says, knew the woman and her son so I rocked up on a Wednesday morning ready to start.

    The smell hit me before I knocked on the door, a mix of rot, spice and cheap wine (after mulling it over for the last few years), woman answered and four small dogs shot out and started nibbling at my feet and barking non stop. I don't frigging believe this, was the first thought sprung to mind. All new dogs, not one house trained. Walked through lounge to dining room French doors with puddles of **** and liquid turds throughout the ground floor CARPET.

    Set up sawhorses, circular saw, planer etc out the back garden to keep dust down in the house and went to the van to get chisels. Went back out and stopped dead in my tracks, one of the dogs had vacated its bowels right on top of my bosch planer. Started sweating, felt the vein at the side of my head starting to bulge and genuinely didn't know how to react. Asked the lady for a piece of kitchen roll and she asked why? I very calmly and politely explained what the dog had done and she said 'oh he never does that, what did you do to him?' Nearly had a coronary, I went ballistic, took her a couple minutes to calm me down and apologise for the situation, 'just keep them out the 'f___ing way', I said.

    They were not kept out of the way one iota the entire 8 hours I was unfortunate enough to be there, tripping over them, kept happily topping up the levels of spicy smelling **** and cack all over the carpets, settees and dining room laminate floor, and just when I thought it wouldn't get any worse, as I'd packed up, she said she was so happy with the doors could I come back and hang another two!!!!!??

    Jesus Christ I had to go through it all again a couple days later. Threw out both sets of clothes I wore on the two days, stopped drinking cider for about a month and gave the planer to my unsuspecting mate who couldn't believe his luck. Gospel truth.

    The things we do to keep a roof.......
     
  12. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    That,my friend...nearly caps it all...What a helluva'n adventure... Or the craftsmans' adventure from hell!
    You're a saint to've not only put up with it all,but to've gone back! Those fine people who hire us,should the technology one day be available, might like to indulge in a virtual reality mind zap,and see for themselves that ultimate patience is indeed a true virtue...Dammit!! You still off the cider?
    And did your friend ever query the strange odour emanating from a hot planer?? A tale of mine own I have to tell...only this time it involves cats, quite a few cats...Actually, more cats in one place at one time,than anyone should ever have to put up with...And I'm a cat person,so the mind boggles!!
    I'm actually working at the mo...a horrendous ceiling repair! Yep,the usual leak from above...so I'd better finish my rolling and cracked on. Cat tale pending...Peace
     
  13. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    Oh....Did she actually query the £3000 per door in the end,lol!!
     
  14. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Heh, unfortunately this was in 2012 when the recession was still kicking us in the teeth, so to add insult to injury I had quoted her £30 per door, which looking back I really needed the work at the time, otherwise I'd have smiled sweetly and said I was too busy to consider working in Satan's living room! o_O You best get a move on then, it's Friday night mate! Good luck.
     
    Doall likes this.
  15. WallWizard.

    WallWizard. New Member

    Ha...I figured you for a kindred craftsman! I would've done the same...and yeah,times were a might tricky then hey! Nearly done...Lucky that the good sir for whom I'm sorting this #!¥§!!? ceiling,doesn't mind me downing a glass or 3 of fine red, in the company of himself & his good wife!
    Actually turning into a bit of an interesting job!! Definitely under the affluence of incohol I am a bit..but standing here on their porch, rollie in hand,a craftsmans' life ain't so bad!
    Yep...Friday night,and all's well. Friggin' lucky I got the boards up before the wine entered my bloodstream, lol!
    Cat story following soon...Have a good eve,mate.
     
  16. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    When I teach the new lads I explain that in an ideal world this is how it should be done, just so they know there is a difference, and then show them the real world solution.
    This time last year I was doing exactly the same job as another chippie, I finished in a day and a half but he took six days. I'm still there , he isn't.
     
  17. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Trouble is that new lads who have two or three years in college under their belt take another two or three years to shape into something resembling useful, with most of them falling by the wayside and deciding that carpentry costs too much (they have a point), as there are no real apprenticeships about, and college doesn't prepare anyone for the real working world unfortunately.
     
  18. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    If it really did take "a couple of hours" I'd agree... but I can sharpen a 22" 10tpi saw in less than 10 minutes.
    I recently recut the teeth, by hand, on an old eBay purchased 12" tenon saw...
    I flattened it, then recut it to 12 tpi, and sharpened it, and did it all in just under an hour. Just sharpening takes far less time.

    And I'm just DIY.

    Regards,

    Cando
     
  19. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I used to have a very nice saw that the company I then worked for sharpened at their expense.
    Cheap hardpoint saws are better.
    I keep 2 on the go, 1 if I think there is any metal around I may hit and 1 just for wood.
     
  20. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    Right, but why would you want to, point I was making is that it's not worth the time spent when other disposable saws are so cheap.
     

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