Replacing Cooker Cable Notifiable?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by mcooper2406, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. mcooper2406

    mcooper2406 Active Member

    Hi All,

    Sorry if I have misunderstood this but I need to extend my cooker cable due to it moving to a new location in another room.

    From what I understand from reading in the part P regulations as it is altering an existing circuit in a non specialised location it is non notifiable.

    However if the cooker cable is fully replace from the CU, does this then become a "new circuit" and notifiable or as the MCB and cable run and everything is already there is it sill altering an existing circuit?

    So my questions are:
    1) is extending the current cable with a 60A JB notifiable?
    2) is replacing the full cable notifiable?

    P.S. I'm not intending to do much if any of the work myself I just wanted to know the in's and out's of Part P in a little more detail before getting quotes etc...
     
  2. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    Not notifiable.
     
  3. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    As Roger says, no and no.

    Ideally replace the whole cable, but as long as the JB is either maintenance free or accessible it is fine.

    Kind regards
     
  4. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    If you are installing it behind plaster though, it will have to be RCD protected. I think its just lighting circuits that now need RCD'ing if they are in trunking or surface isn't it?
     
  5. tim091

    tim091 New Member

    I am about to do the same thing and had the same question. From what I have read elsewhere even if work is not notifiable does it not have to (legally under Part P) be tested and certified?

    I am simply extending existing 6mm using a 60A wall mounted junction box to a new cooker switch and outlet (chased in to plaster). I will also swap the existing 32A MCB with a 32A RCBO.

    All simple stuff but does it have to be tested and certified?
     
  6. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    I suspect that part means it does... but I'm not a pro, DIY.

    Regards,
    Cando
     
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    It is quite simple really.

    All work in domestic premises come under the scope of Part P
    All work within the scope of Part P must be carried out to the requirements of the current wiring regulations BS7671:2018
    The current wiring regulations require that any work is inspected and tested and were necessary a MWC(Minor Works Certificate) or an EIC(Electrical Installation Certificate) issued by the designer/installer/tester on completion of the work.

    In addition to this

    Some work is Notifiable to the LABC(Local Authority Building Control).
    Notifiable work must be notified to the LABC before it begins unless the work is being completed by
    A - A person registered on the CPC (Competent Persons Scheme) - some call this being "Part P registered"
    or
    B - being inspected by a Third Party Installer.

    So, although it is not 'illegal' to do a bit of work on your own home it is unlikely unless you have the test equipment you will be able to meet the requirements of Part P.

    Millions of folk have ignored this for years - the choice is yours.
     
  8. tim091

    tim091 New Member

    Thanks Comlec. Where I am still confused is the statement that all work comes under the scope of part P. There are some items listed that are "not notifiable" such as changing a light fitting, or replacing a socket front. But my confusion is: do those jobs still require inspection/test certification?
     
  9. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    All electrical work should be inspected and tested according to the requirements of BS7671, (the IET Wiring Regulations,) by a competent person and an appropriate Certificate issued for the work.

    That may be a Minor Electrical Works Certificate for a job such as you propose, or an Electrical Installation Certificate for larger installation work.

    Kind regards
     
  10. tim091

    tim091 New Member

    Thanks, that clarifies it totally!

    Am I right in thinking that a sparks is likely to be loathe to certify DIY work? Makes sense as it is his name on the cert.
     
  11. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    If you find one that will certify 3rd party work BEFORE you start, discuss the job with him, he will tell you when he wants to inspect and when he wants to test. You must then inform him at the pre-arranged inspection points and he will look at how the work is progressing. He will then carry out the final testing BEFORE you make the circuit live and issue the appropriate certificate.

    Kind regards
     
  12. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    Shouldn’t need to be a ‘Third Party Inspector’, as the work doesn’t require notification.
    Any electrician with an MFT should be able to either issue a certificate, or guide someone through the process.
    It’s just a question of finding someone willing.
     
  13. tim091

    tim091 New Member

    Thanks all.
     
  14. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Not notifiable, but some testing is important - at very least a loop test to ensure you actually have a functioning earth (ideally you will want to know the RCD operates OK and the insulation is good too!) - in terms of certification you can download the model form from the IET site and fill it in yourself - but you need numbers to put in the boxes, it will be perfectly valid so long as the tests have been done and the results entered.

    Of course you could take the approach of many in the trade and either stick the maximum permissable value in or write LIM (limitation) in every box, or go mad with greater than or less than symbols!

    In seriousness though, although notification is not required, testing is a must, for yours and others safety.
     
  15. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    I was lead to understand kitchens, gardens, and bathrooms are special locations so in Wales these areas should in theory be notified to the LABC for any work which is carried out. In England that was also the rules, but the rules were changed, but by time changed devolution resulted in the Welsh rules not changing.

    I think very few inform the LABC for work which in England does not require notifying even if in Wales. The Minor works certificate is filled in for two reasons, one is it acts as a check list so no tests are missed, and two it should show the installation was OK when the electrician left.

    Not inflatable, and electrician can likely guess the results and fill it in without testing, but if there is no minor works, then hard to argue it was OK when I left, so no electrician would fail to fill one in, as it is like a get out of jail free card.

    I know with mothers house 2007 approx I was suspicious as to if the electrician employed by the county council social services had done their job correctly, I plugged in the RCD tester and as I suspected the RCD failed to trip, but did trip on other circuits, so without removing the cover on the consumer unit I knew he had connected it to the wrong side of the CU.

    With rental accommodation the EICR is likely to also high light errors, and no electrician wants some one failing what he has installed and some owner asking him to correct it for free, so he wants to be able to show it was done correctly.

    As to DIY, who will know? If some thing does go wrong, then the HSE will test and inspect all that has been done, and looking at the Emma Shaw case they will find out when some one has falsified records.

    However it also raises another question, if you don't have the skill, and it all goes wrong, is it your fault? The electricians mate did the testing and he admitted fudging up results, but the foreman took the rap for using unskilled labour, seems you need to be skilled as an electrician to plug in a meter, press the button, and write down the result!

    So even if you do it 100% as you should, and fill in the Minor Works, is seems unless skilled the courts will not accept you know what you are doing, which raises the question why bother?

    So if I do some thing to the electrics of this house and a visitor as a result is injured I would be responsible, but if my wife did the same thing, and some one injured, I would still be responsible not her, as she does not have the skill.

    This leaves the LABC in a poor position, as if you notify them that your going to do some work, then they have to ensure it is done safely. So when I came to do mothers wet room, by the book, the LABC inspector had to satisfy himself that I had the skill. So he was not happy allowing me to DIY.
     

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